family traditions 4th March, 2004 sound Sound Cassette English Abhijeet Joshi Oral Interview Interview 053 Mridula Gola Female Nairobi

Leicester U.K. standard nine EN English I would just like to start of with if you could just tell me a little bit about your family's history and where do you know like where your parents came from, both like your mother and your father, the towns or villages or? My father from Zanzibar and my mom from Tanzania. Do you know whereabouts? Tanzania, Mwanza. And your father? From Zanzibar, I don't know the town. And my father moved to India later and then went Kenya. Okay so he was in Zanzibar then he went back to India and then came over? Why did he do that? Kenya. Because my grandma was ill when they lived in Zanzibar so they went India to do some, I don't know what. And after my grandma passed away my grandfather married again and my father's elder brother, they took my father and my uncle to Kenya. Okay that's why they came back and then to Kenya. Yeah. Yeah. So how old was your father then when you came to Kenya? Was he? Very young. Did he ever tell, did he tell you any memories that he had from when he was young growing up or how things were then because there it wasn't such a big community so that? Yeah it was funny because my grandma died and after short time my grandfather died as well. And they grew with his brother and sister-in-law and nephew and nieces. So he was just looked after by his brothers and. Yeah. Okay and what about your mother then. Did she stay in the same place? Yeah Mwanza. She born there as well. And how was the, an arranged marriage or something like that? It's arranged marriage, yeah. What is the connection between the families there because always quite a distance between? I don't know about that, anything, no. Okay and so where did they settle then? In Mwanza. So your father came to? To Mwanza yeah. Okay. And then after 9-10 years we went to India. So where were you born then? I born in Nairobi, Kenya and then they moved to Mwanza and I've got two sisters and three brothers. Okay so you were born in. They all born in Mwanza. Okay so then you said that you went your whole family went to India. India yeah. Because of my father's circumstances because he had Indian passport so we have to leave Tanzania. Because, is that because of the Africanisation? Yeah. So your father chosen to go to India? India. Why did he decide to go to India? No because he has to. He just had to. Okay. He was a citizen there, that's why. What was his profession in the mean time like while he was in Africa at that time? He used to work in shops and his profession was accountant. Okay. Could you remember then what it was like going to India then? Yeah, we went in a Steamer. Okay. Steamer yeah. It took us 21 days. And what was it like, the actual steamer? Well I was only 9 years old. Do you remember anything? Yeah. It was fun. Because you know little child, little children they enjoy everywhere. Because it's nice company as well in there. Everything was fine. Was there other children? Pardon me. Was there other children also? Oh yes. Yeah. Lots of children and lots of students as well. And so when you went to India, where did you go to? Did you have, you had family there or? Yeah my grandma. Your grandma. Where was she? My father's stepmother she was there. Whereabouts? Porbander in Gujarat. Okay so then how long did you stay there? I stayed 10 years in India and I came here. My husband came there to get married. And my husband and then I came here in 1975. So tell me a bit about then the ten years that you were in India then? What was it like then because I guess, I presume that you were in school and? Yeah school and we used to, can't remember much. Was your father still working as an accountant or--- On and of. Yeah we had a really hard time in India. It was my dad, he was ill you know, my mom used to work at home. What did she do? She was, she used to making blouses and skirts and dresses and things like that yeah. I used to study and help my mom. And your sisters also? Yeah she, they used to as well because I am the eldest and I have got two sisters and brothers younger than me. So you started to look at that as well. Yes, I used to help with you know doing weaving and buttons and things like that. And what about things like religious occasions or social events, so how were they celebrated? Yeah, I used to believe in God you know. I used to believe in a Shankar when I was little and naturally the temple was next door to my house, you know and I used to go everyday to do pooja and I used to love it you know, when I was little. But I didn't know much about God or anything. But I follow everybody. In India, they do pooja and things like that, and I go with them and do pooja then lots of other celebrations. And what about things like Navratri or Diwali, how did they celebrate it, like, I mean come together then to celebrate? Yeah. We used to wake up early in the morning, four or five o'clock and we used to do paint in our, front of you know doorstep outside with cow dung, we used to do nice smooth floor and do Rangolis and we used to do lots of fire works and lovely food, in Diwali time we all used to make you know lots of--- yeah. You all joined in and--- Yeah, we look forward when Navratri and Diwali comes yeah. So how far then did you go with your education? I just studied standard nine, yeah. And then you said you got married, was your marriage arranged? Yes. What was, how big was that? Was it a big wedding or--- Yeah, not very big yeah because from here only my husband came, nobody else came so--- So the rest of his family--- My great, father-in-law's father was there, grandfather and grandma, they were there so with them you know, we stayed for about fifteen days with them and my husband came early here and I came later on after six days. Had you met him before you got married? No, that was arranged marriage. That was totally, totally arranged. Totally yeah. What was that like for you, was that a bit--- Its very strange and scared and here because strange families, strange country as well. I found it very difficult in the beginning, when I came here because is totally completely different than you know where I was living in India. Lifestyle is, everything is totally different. Can you actually remember the day that you left? Did you travel on your own? Yeah. Was it your first time? Yes. I was scared yeah. But I don't know what happened. I stopped thinking you know, where am I going, I was a little excited as well you know. I am going in a plane and things like that. First time I, you know, my, I was flying and that sort of thing you know and fear inside as well you know, my parents, I left my parents first time, I was apart you know, left them behind and I came here and I just Which airport did you arrive? Heathrow. And your husband was there then? Yeah my husband, my father-in-law, my sister-in-law and my brother-in-law came to fetch me. Oh the whole, they came to meet you. Yeah. And where were they living, in London at the time or they lived in Leicester? No, in Leicester. In same street when I came here, in number thirty-nine. And what are your memories of just, you know coming out of the airport and I mean did you come in the summer or the winter? No December. Black, was nighttime and you know what okay. I thought that you know, what's the country? Yeah you are just sitting at the scene, watch over them. No. And you are traveling up there? No. So then the next day, you saw everything. Must have been a bit of a shock. Yeah. What year was that then? 1975. '75. There was old. Was nineteen years old then. Wow! That's amazing. And you moved here with your husband, was and was his family there as well then? Yeah, joint family, yeah. And what was it like for you just you know, just settling in or meeting, I mean you obviously were meeting all the family, but maybe meeting other people? Yeah all started to come to visit me every weekend you know, I was, we were busy, everybody is coming because my uncles, my mother's brothers and my father's brothers, they all were here and they started to come visit me. Because I never seen some of my family you know. And it was excited then you know,'oh! They all coming to visit me'. And I started to know everybody. I started to remember everything. Yeah. Then you had to start you know, going out and you know shopping and yeah just all those kind of regular, everyday kind of things. How long did it take you to get used to everything? Well I not remember because I used to go out with my sister-in-law. She used to take me everywhere. And what about, did your family, did your in-laws go to the temple or any, things like that? Were they religious? No at that time they, there was only one temple in, Sanatan Mandir, that was the only one. Did you go there or its quite far? No. Not very often but my father-in-law, he was really religious person. He used to sing at home, he used to read Gita in Bhagwat Gita and Ramayan. His favorite was Ramayan. He used to talk to me about you know religious, that's how I become more religious, and I knew about Ramayan and Bhagwat Gita. You learned it from him. Yeah. Because he had all of, all the books so I started reading little bit you know. And what about the, just like family traditions that both, your own family and your in-laws, did they have any particular family traditions that they followed? That had come down you know, like I mentioned before, like particular Murti that they worshipped or Guru that they followed or? No. My, you know my, it, my father he is a, he had a Guru called Kabir Saheb. And my father-in-law, he was believing in Ramdev Peer. My mother-in-law was in, what you call, Vaishnav sort of, she believes in Krishna. And in my family my mother-in-law and father-in-law, they have got completely different Gurus. But I haven't got any Guru. But I say Morari Bapu, he is my Guru, I just telling myself that he is my Guru because I had lots of knowledge from him. Listening his Katha and things like that. Yeah. Okay. I wanted to ask you this just a bit before but I have got lost here. When you came here did you ever experience any of problems or like racism or any kind of negative? No. Because here some people they get. Because at that time everybody was so friendly know, if you look for a job, anything they were really friendly that time. And what about socially, were there any, anything you know, was there anything for people to do you know, outside the home at that point? Was there any? No. I didn't have any that sort of experience. Okay. We will kind of start maybe on to the religious you know side of things by know, you telling me about your family's Gurus and deities, but what about your own personal beliefs and how have they changed over the years? You said you know, Morari Bapu's given you inspiration and your father-in-law had a lot of the books and things. So how do you? When I was study in India in a history, there was lots of subject about Ramayan and I used to think you know, who's Ram and who's Ravanas' and who's Sitas' and things like that. But sometime you know, I used to ask my mom, but she didn't have that much knowledge and then I liked to read lots of books but in, where I was, we living in India I didn't find any nice books you know, and then when I moved in Leicester with my father-in-law I found a book, that I knew I that books, in that books I can find who Sita was, who's Ram was and Ravanas and you know things like that. And that was my subject, favourite subject Ramayan was that you know, the, when I was little and yeah and I read once whole Ramayan and I couldn't understand properly and when I listened to Morari Bapu then I begins to understand the whole stories and behind that stories they, what Ramayan is telling, personal is well you know, what's Ram teaches us, what Sita's teaches us, what Ravana you know. So what do you actually get then from these teachings that help you then lead your life? What is it that transfers over then, if you see what I mean? In Ramayan Ram shows us that, you know, you have to trust and believe yourself as well and well Ram actually is telling everybody that if a, I don't know how to explain that. He teaches us how to respect everyone. So that's where you pick up on and that's how you live your life. Yeah. Okay. And what about, since you know, moving here you said there was only one Sanatan Mandir back then. Obviously now there is like there's temples all over the city. So how, maybe just in that kind of regard with you know, ritual performances or going to the temple. How have things changed for you then? We don't go temple. You don't go. To, only some time, because I have got one little temple in my house so I believe in that. Okay. The God is everywhere. But God is in myself as well. I have got inside me as well, right? And so when I feel like, I do Pooja every morning at my temple so I don't need to do, go to temples. Yeah. When I feel like going, I will go. And what about like the big festivals like? Still I don't go. You know. You still don't go? No. Where, do you celebrate them at home? Yeah And how do you celebrate them? Yeah with my children. Just the close family? Yeah the close family, yes. Okay. Have you ever, this is a very personal question but you don't need to just. Okay. You don't need to answer if you don't want to. Have ever had any like deep spiritual feeling or a moment when you kind of felt that there is been some presence, either be it God or you know somebody looking over you or something that's maybe make to change having? Yeah believe in Goddess. So sometime when sort of Goddess ceremony is going like Navratri, then I feel like you know, I feel like dancing and but I am scared as well sometime, I don't want to dance and I just sit like that. Because it's too much for you? Yeah. Okay. And if you have this kind of, how does that change your thoughts then afterwards, I mean do you feel different after or? Yeah. This is more, this is of kind a more generalized things I just want to ask you about. Do you think it's easier now for Hindus in the U.K. than say when it was you know, maybe, you know and people came before you know, they had different experiences. Do you think it's now easier to be a Hindu in the U.K.? Do you think people more accept it? Yeah. I think so. And what do you think should change, just with society in general do you think to make them maybe even more accepting or, what, do you think there should be a change? Yeah. Lots of things you know, to change because you know, people are following so, about religious, they following footsteps you know, everybody's, they don't know why they doing this, why, how to do it, that, you know, that sort of need to change because sometime it so negative in there as well because my daughter used to ask, why we doing this and I haven't got any answer for that. Now we started to understand why we all, why we doing this and that and that, that's why you know. Still need lot of changing Hindu religion. They needs develop just to better understanding. Yeah. And another thing you just touched on that is the youth. I wanted to ask you, do you feel that just it's, in generally, do you feel that they are more or less religious than say when you were a youth? Yeah more, yeah. And why, how do you feel that they are more? Because in India, how much, the religion are more believing, youngsters and everybody in England than India, self. Because when I used to live in India I didn't know about more Mantras and Bhajans and whatever, you know, didn't know about anything. When I came here then I, what do you say, I knew that you know, you have to say this, you have to say this, because my father-in-law used to tell me and my children know lots of things about as well. So going back to they know the reasons behind everything. Yeah. Do you think it's important for the youth to learn their mother tongue? Yes. Why do you feel that? Because then I don't know. My children they do speak Gujarati with me, but I think they should learn more. So in India whenever they go India you know, our side they all speak Gujarati. So they do need it there as well. Yeah. Okay. Another general question, people often like to talk about it and debate about it, so am asking people's opinion on it. The Caste system and do you feel that it's still important today or that people are still finding it relevant? Well as, I believe that you know Caste system is slowly is going. In England special, because human being is all human beings. The Caste is started with their work, what they used to do you know, they are tailor and goldsmith and things like that but now a days is same, yeah. Do you think it's better than at that stage? Yes. Okay. Just couple of final questions now really. How do identify yourself now? If people were to ask you, you know, who are you? Because you were born in Africa but you lived in India for a long time, you lived in the U.K. for a long time, you have got very you know deep Hindu roots going on, so how do you identify yourself? I don't know how to say that. No? It's still a big mixture, all the different bits . Yeah. Okay. And where do you see as home? Do you see like India is kind of being home or want to go back to or? Because, no. Is the U.K. or? I like where I live because this is my home. Because you know, India, I don't know. Wherever I live, that's my home. Okay. Have you ever been back to India? Yeah, twice yeah. Is that recently or? Yeah, 3-4 years ago. Yeah. And how do you think things have changed then, since the first time you were there? Yeah. Quite a bit. Yeah. How do you think they have changed? Lots of things. When I was there you know it's completely poor peoples now, they never used to study and never used to understand. Now they are more, you know, standard are really getting higher. Yeah. Finally then just to round off the interview. Do you have any final thought or final message to give to people who will be listening to this in future? It could be about anything. For everybody they have to, they should, more religious books they should read and they, we should, I don't know how to say it. Oneness, more like you know. Come together. Yeah. Everybody should develop togetherness. Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much.