Relgious practices, Cast System 15th February, 2004 sound Sound Cassette English Oral Interview Interview 094 Durgesh Desai Male 45 Malawi, central Africa

London U.K. qualified Accountant Teaching students EN Gujarati, Hindi, English I just like to start off, if you briefly just tell me a little about your family's history and if you know where your parents were born. My grandfather left India in 1914. Yeah. He comes from Western India Gujarat, specifically the town Mahuwa which is near Bhavnagar. Okay. My grandfather left India to go and settle in what is now known Malawi, which is in central Africa. My father was born there, so was I. Why did your grandfather moved from Gujarat? My grandfather had a fight with his father. Okay. Mahuwa happens to be port city, so he got into one of those douse to travel to Africa. Then he trekked all the way to from Mozambique to Malawi, which is about 200 plus miles. What was his, did he had a profession at that time or was he just gonna start. My grandfather started working for a firm of solicitors. In those days he was educated up to what was known as the matric standard. So he worked as a solicitor's clerk. Okay. And then your father did he work? My father he used to work as an accountant for a co-operative society. What town, what town was your father born in? He was born in Blantyre. And your mother? My mother was born in Kenya. Okay, so how that's a quite a long way apart. My, because my parents is, my what my father used to travel from Malawi to India and you could either go by ship in those days or by aeroplane and you have to stop, if you went by ship you went to Nairobi first from Malawi, then you went to Mombasa by train to get the ship or if you flew you went to Nairobi first and there are only two flights a week. So you have to stop in Nairobi. And that's this was our family friend's house and they happen to meet there and that's how they got married. That's how they met. Yeah, that's how it happened. Okay. And so then what was life like for yourself then, growing up in Malawi? Growing up in Malawi was, although we had lots of Hindu families there, we used to have temple there as well but we did what everybody did, we went to temple once a week every Sunday and rest of the days you did what either you went to school or if you are working, you are working. You know the temple in Blantyre was that a built like a purpose built temple? It is a purpose built temple. Okay. Because I have been there, I was thinking may be it's a same. It's a purpose built temple. Okay. What about you know festivals and celebrations or something, what was that like? We used to have all the major festivals, all the major Hindu festivals were celebrated there and we had also a small Gurudwara as well in Limbdi where the Sikh festival used to be celebrated. And there was a very small Buddhist community as well. And there was no conflict or anything? No. Okay. and how many of you are there in your family? Your brothers and sisters. I got five sisters, one older to me four younger to me Did you went to school and everything? I went, I did my primary school in Malawi, I did my secondary school from India in Gujarat Okay so you went back? My parents put me away in a boarding school to study. Okay. Why was that? Since I was the only son so that I would not be spoiled at home. So I studied in Gujarat, I did my secondary high school from Gujarat. I did my university from Gujarat as well then I went back to Malawi and worked for a few years and then I came here. Okay. In 1983 I came to the U.K. So what would, what were you working as when you came here? As an Accounts Assistant. Accounts Assistant Okay. So is that what you got your training in then? Yes. Once I came to U.K. I qualified as an Accountant as well. Okay. So you were the, were you the first in your family to come to U.K.? Yes. From my father's side I was the first one. And did you have any other family here like? I had a few aunts here. So they were people that met you or? Yes. My father's sisters they were 3 sisters here. Okay. 2 in London, 1 in Birmingham. Okay. Tell me what was it like for you the first time we came here, what was it like? It was very nice, different experience. How old were you? 24. Okay. So what was it? Can you remember the first day you arrived? What were your expectations of the place and then what was it actually like? I arrived at Gatwick Airport. Let me get the detail. I was meant to be picked up by my aunt. Nobody came to pick me up. And I made my own way from Gatwick to Tutti. What was that like feel then just happen to navigate the whole? I found that if you could read English and you could see the signs you wouldn't get lost. But it was a very different experience coming to, what I thought was much more civilized society and civilized part of the world. Was that actually? In those days I. Civilized, do you think? I found it more civilized. Yeah. In those days, yes. And now? It's still. So what, where did you study then when you came here? I studied with the London School of Accountancy. I did my ACC exams. I qualified as an Accountant and I am now teaching students how to become Accountants. Okay. To get more! Yes. To get it through. Did you go back then to Malawi after that? No I haven't been since. Or you stayed here? Since I came here in '83, my parents left Malawi in 1987. And they came to stay here with you? Yes. They are now settled here. What was it like for them coming here? My father left Malawi because they changed the National Laws in Malawi in 1986. So although my father was born there and I was born there, my father did not have rights to work in that country. He had to apply for a, what was a equivalent to work permit. So that's when he decided to leave. So what was it like for both of them? Because I mean they must you know, they were very settled. Yes. They were very well settled. I mean you coming here as a student is one thing but coming. But them coming here was total different because my father never imagined leaving Malawi. That was the only country he ever knew. But he had to move. He was in his 50's then, early 50's. He came and settled down here. Okay. And have you been in London? Did you stay in London the whole time or? I've stayed in London all, ever since yes. Ever since. And what were the, what year did you come here? '80? 1983. '83. So there was quite established Hindu communities. It was. By that stage. Did you have much contact with them at the time or? I used to live at the Indian YMCA in Central London. Okay. And we had lots of different Nationalities staying at the YMCA. So there was quite a lot of. Yes. There was quite, bit of interaction, yes. I wanted to just ask you a little bit about your religious practices. How did they change? No first of all I want to ask you do you have family traditions with regard to religion? Do you have like traditional Murti that you worship or a Guru or? My, when I was young and I was living at home with my parents and grand parents, my grand father used to recite the Shrimad Bhagwat I mean Bhagwat Gita every morning. Okay. So whilst I was still sleeping, I would hear that. All right. So we grew up in that environment. Right. I then lived for about 5 years in a Roman Catholic Boarding School. So I learnt about those practices as well. Yeah. And then for a few years when I was at University in Baroda there was no basic religious practice at all. And once I went back to Malawi, got into the main stream of doing things at the temple. Visiting temple regularly and that's all I did. Okay. And when you came here then? When I came here in 1983, my main incentive of going to the Radha Nandeshwar temple was for Prasada. Okay. You just founded Prasadam. I just saw devotees around and then I followed them and then I knew where I can get some Prasadam. And I still remember, I see the Pujaris in those days used to wear Black Chappal and Navadeep. Okay. The moment we walked in, there were 3 of us, he would just give us a bit of Prasad, we would take it and we would walk out. That was it? That was it. So how do you feel that your own personal religious practices have changed then over the years? They have become more regulated now. Okay. We now understand why we do certain things. Because before it just used to be, they do it, we are supposed to do it. Now having read some of the Prabhupad's books you understand why you do certain things. When you come to the London here, you interact with lots of other people, you ask questions, you get proper answers and they are logical answers and therefore you understand why you do certain things. Okay. What about yourself personal, what would you say are your beliefs then, you lived your life by? I live my life by the Bhagwat Gita. Bhagwat Gita. So everything? Yes. We follow the 4 regular principles. I travel a lot. I sometimes go 100, I go without food if I can't identify what's in the food in the hotel, I won't eat it. And do you have? I normally tell the devotees, you have made into some that we were not that, like that before. We would eat, now we don't eat. We think. Each time you pick up something you think. And do you have? And I find it, it's good. Yeah. Do you have, does your family have a Guru or do you have a Guru? My wife and I aspiring for Radhanath Maharaj. We don't have a family Guru as such. All right. And how do you think that the youth of today, do you think that they are taking up religious practices now or more so then say when you were youth or do you feel it's less? I think it's, if you don't have people who come to temples or any other temple, not specifically Iskon temples, even the Swaminarayan, if your family doesn't go there then that portion of the youth, they are lost completely. Because I see a lot of them at the college where I work, they don't know why they are here, what they are doing? They try to imitate Western people, Western principles, without realizing why they are doing it. So they are just kind of following? Yeah they are just following. They just do what things the youth have to do. Okay. Nothing to do. Yeah. Do you think it's important for the youth to learn their mother tongue? Yes. If you learn your mother tongue then at least you can converse with your elders. Because not all elders can speak English. If you don't know it and at least you can follow the narrative side of it, you are still okay. By learning I don't mean reading and writing. Because my wife can just about read but she can't write. Okay. But she can speak it properly. Yeah. Yeah speak it. Even if you have little bit of your own mother tongue, it's still good for you. Okay. I feel so anyway. Yeah. And just one thing that people often talk about, I just want to get your opinion on that. The Caste System and the Caste breakdown of people, do you think that's still important today? Do you think people still identify with that? It's becoming less and less identifiable now. Used to be prevalent, when I got married in 1989 my father-in-law did not talk to me for 1 whole year. Okay. Because we don't come from the same caste. Okay. What caste do you from then? My wife is a Brahmin and I am what you would call a Naagar. Okay. It's total, different Caste all together. Different Caste all together. Yes. Okay. And couple of final questions then. How would you identify yourself because you've got a very strong Indian Background but your family have deep roots then obviously in Malawi in Africa? You've lived in the U.K. for such a long time you've got very strong religious background as well. So if somebody is to ask you who are you? What would you say? I told them I was born in Africa, I was based in India and I now live in the U.K. Okay. That's it? Which is just about right. Briefly. Briefly. And what did you see as home now? Home is between India and U.K. Okay. Not Malawi anymore. Not Malawi anymore. Do you ever go back to Malawi? You've been back? I haven't been since. But I have a sister who still stays there. Okay. And how did she find it now? She finds it different but she likes to be there because she is qualified as a Doctor. Okay. She likes to work there. Okay. With the local people. And do you ever go to India? Almost every year. Every year. Yeah? So what's the _ in India then? I have got relatives in India. My father's side, mother's side relatives. I just built a house for them to because my parents have just retired so that was the main reason for going. Otherwise we go and spend about a week in Vrindavan. Okay. And a week in Mayapur. Every year? If either it's Vrindavan or Mayapur or we do a track of the temples. Sounds very lucky. Finally then, I just want to ask you if you've got any final message to give it to people who will be listening in the future. Anybody who could be listening. Any final for thought or maybe how they could better their lives. I would, regulated religious principles, religious life is very important. It keeps you focused in your day-to-day life. That's what I find. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you.