Life in Leicester, Working experiences 7th February, 2004 sound Sound Cassette English Oral Interview Interview Draupadi Abhijeet Joshi 132 Ramanbhai Barber Male 59 1945 Nani Dhamdod

Leicester U.K. KSPE, 'O' levels Working for Leicester City Council EN Gujarati, Hindi, English I would like to just start off the interview with your own history and I would like to ask you do you know where your parents were born and you know what state or villages or exactly where they were born? My parents were born in India in a small village called Nani Dhamdod district Surat in India Gujarat. Gujarat. And are both parents from there. They both parents from there, from India. Okay. And was your father's profession then there? My father professions all the time been a hairdresser. Okay. And your mother, she was a housewife. She was a housewife. Where were you born then? I was born in India, that was in 1945 and I came from a, I was brought from India with my mother, we traveled in a, we call it a boat or steamer that day. In 1952 I came to Kenya when I was only eight and then I did my all my primary studies and high school studies in Kenya. What was, so you were living in India till you were eight years old. Were you born in the same place, where your parents were born? Yes that was the same place. Okay. And what was life like there, then it was the village that you were living in? Well I was very small child like that in India. Do you remember any of it? Yes I can still remember when I was a child in India. I used to go around in a small school, village school in India and my father was in Kenya that time so my mother used to take me round the other side, the other villages as well, other cities as well and that time it was just as a child I was just enjoying my childhood that in India. Did you have brothers or sisters? Yeah I had one brother that is elder than me, and one sister she was, she was married and she was in South Africa. Okay. So then why did your father then move to Kenya? My father moved to Kenya in 1920, that was very early time you see because there was a, the people you know, there farm in Kenya but the farm is not enough to give us living, good living. Yeah. So he moved into Kenya because hairdresser as profession, so he moved into Kenya to get some more income in Kenya. Okay. So can you remember the journey going there in the steam Ship, what was that like? Yes I can remember I can that was sailing ship SS we call it SS Kampala; I can still remember the name of the ship, that sailing ship Kampala. It was a big ship there and it takes about eight days from Bombay to Mombasa. We landed in a port called Mombasa, in Kenya and there my elder brother was there and he came to receive us at the Mombasa harbor. So, where did you then settle down then in Kenya? All right from Kenya we went, from Mombassa we traveled about six hundred miles to Thomson's Falls and it was a beautiful place. The Thomson's Falls is a hill station like and a beautiful falls and so it was like. It was very a small town where my father settled there and the settlers you know, there is lot of settlers there, European most of from the European countries because of the cold weather there, Thomson's Falls people like to stay there in a good clean air. So my father was a barber, a hairdresser in that town so, he had a shop, hairdresser shop. Okay. So what was life like then for, was it a strange for your mother arriving there or you know how did she settle in there, did she like it? No my mother, when I, my mother was there before in Nairobi, even before I born, she was in Nairobi. So she knew what's, how the Kenya was but this is the new town, she Thomson's Falls, so we got adjusted with the people, neighbors and all that and most of the Asians were living next doors and all that. So we just got used to it, my mother didn't find anything strange. It was for my father, he was bit relieved because he used to cook for himself and he used to go to the shop as well but when my mother was there so, he was relieved from that kitchen. Really consulted. And then what was it like socially then and also religiously whether community events happening or did the community come together for religious events? Yes I think yes, there was, it was a very small town, I mean a small town but there people and some Hindus people living there and some Muslims as well as and some other Christians as well but they all living in one family, one big family and you can't segregate them that who is Hindu or who is Muslim, because we were all living like as an Asians there. So whenever we used to celebrate any of our religious festivals we all got together. If there was a Christmas you know we all get together and enjoy Christmas. If there is a Id, we celebrate Id with Muslims and Hindus all and there is Diwali we used to celebrate together and most of when I was in my school, my most interesting religious ceremony was Navratri. Nine night of Garba, so I used to go in Navratri celebration and as a, even if as a child, as a boy I used to go around the circles and play garba and that was my very interesting ceremony. And still. I still. And I still go to garba now. Very good. Play stick dance and all you know. Yeah. And was there a temple there or is it just? No there was no temple there because this is a small town and it was not economical to have a temple there. But people have their own shrines at home. But if there was a big occasion like Navratri we used to set a shrine in the centralized place so, people used to go and pay their respect right in the way. Okay. Just in the center of town. Center of town. And what about your family personally, how religious were they then, were they? They were because we used to celebrate all our festivals. My mother used to do some fasting and all that and I used to as a boy I used to watch them, see what they are doing and all that during the festivals and they observe all the religious things and all that. And are they in a specific caste, your family or? No we are Hindus but our caste is called Limbachia, which we call it a hairdressers caste actually. Caste like hairdresser, shoemakers, tailors and like we are a caste of hairdressers but we were only one family as a hairdresser there. Okay. And do you have, does your family then have a specific Murti that they worship, you know some families traditionally worship a specific Murti or something? No, we are the followers of goddess Limbachia. We used to have a Limbach Mata's photo in our shrine at home and also Lord Krishna and Ganesh, Shivji. Then did you go to school? Oh yes, I went to school there and I studied there till standard seventh and then in terms this was on until standard seventh this is called Kenya Asian Preliminary Examination and that was the end of the primary education there and that was a tough examination, that KSPE, if you pass KSPE then you can go for all other, we used to call a Senior Cambridge there. So how old were you then when you did that exam then? I was about thirteen, thirteen-fourteen yeah. And then after that then? After that I went for further actually because there was no high school in Thompson's Falls. I had to go in other city but it was not possible for me to carry on because my father was not in a, because we had to pay big fees, my accommodation and all that so, we had to everything from my, for one person earning, so I didn't go much further but I did it some of my studies there in Kenya, which at least for two years I went to the town and I studied it. I finished the Senior Cambridge there, you know the 'O' levels, we used to call Senior Cambridge and those, the papers examination paper used to come from England, Cambridge. Okay. And that was a Senior Cambridge. So they were all English. All English, yeah, and most of them in English. I mean my teacher in Thomson's Falls was a English teacher. Okay. Was there much mixing with the black people then in the school or was it's? No, there was a, at that time there was a black school. And there was a white school and there was an Indian school in that place and there was two white schools, one for the people who come from Holland, Dutch, that was a Dutch School and the other one for English schools and there was two African schools and one Indian school. But there was no mix school at that time, but when I left Kenya in 1964 things was changing then. What about outside of school, was there much mixing with the children just playing, do they mix in? Oh yes, we used to play football with the other schools actually because we have had no segregation. We used to go the each other schools so we went and play football and all. Okay. So what happened then after you did your further education? Did you start working? No, when I finished my further education I joined, I was looking for a my, for employment myself even at the age of sixteen I was looking for employment but I did found one or two places that was in a general stores, general stores in Kenya that means they sell everything from hardware, grocery, African goods everything, even fuel diesel. They had their own the taxi business and bus business so, it was a big experience for me there. So I was like a under manager, under clerk there, I used to do all the clerical work there for that shop, for that general store there and that has given me a good experience there because I had to, I was doing some of the things on my own initiative. So then that was, I gained lot of experience there. Okay. So then what happened from, you know while you were working there and then what happened in the between time before you came to the U.K. then. Well. I was doing part time actually. I started doing some book keeping and accountancy, bookkeeping and typing, at that time this typing was important to get a job so, I was doing a study at home you see. There was some tutorial college they used to say, you study at home like they used to send all the papers at home and you study at home. Okay, like a correspondence. Correspondence classes we call it, yeah. Okay. So you were doing that and what about your siblings, what were they doing in the mean time then as well. Were they all working, or getting married or, what were they? My? Your siblings, your brothers you know. Oh my brother was in Kenya he used to work but my sister I said, she was gone in South Africa, my brother used to work for a firm there. Okay. So what made, who lived to England first then? Who made the decision to leave and why then? I think my father made a decision for me to send to England because he had some relatives in England specially in Leicester and he said, I want to send my son to England either for the study or for or to get some work or something. So, but I didn't wanted to because the Kenya was so beautiful place you know and at that time, I was only eighteen or nineteen. I didn't wanted to move, I told my dad say look here, I am not going anywhere further of this Kenya because I like this country and I like the environment and, I didn't wanted to leave my parent. But then he and my mother says, look here this is your life you got to, at least you got to do something for your own, so there is a scope, there is a chance so you better go there. So somebody sponsored me from here, one of my relations most probably. There was no sponsor because there was no visas all like that but that person, he is still in Leicester and agreed to put me on with him in his house, he agreed, so I came in 1964. On your own, yeah? On my own. Okay, did you fly? Fly by British Airways. Was that your first time flying? First time flight. Yes. Tell me about that whole experience then just you know your first day arriving in the U.K. and stuff it must have been fascinated. Oh that was a very good. Your expectations are one thing and then what actually happens is another thing. It is a very good question. I wrote an article sometime ago about how about my experience was in England and I can just tell from that my experience that when I first arrived at London airport, I found lot of fogging, it was fogging, a foggy day and this my relations had came to pick me up at the Heathrow and when I just came out of the airport lounge I saw misty and foggy and everything so, I said where I am on. And there was nice Kenya all, warm and country you see, open country and all. It's all foggy and all and I said yeah. Then they gave me something like a brought jumper or something for me so, I said just put this jumper on or you get a cold. I did put the jumper on and we drove through the motorway and motorway from London, there was no, motorway was only up to Littlewoods M-1. There was still going to build motorway so you can say that, there is the motorway in 1964 was only up to Littlewoods that was M -1. So from Littlewoods we had to go to the, through the villages from, small villages and we came to Leicester. When I came to Leicester you see, I didn't see anything at touch it, it is like Nairobi like because I flown from Nairobi, Nairobi has a very big, tall buildings and all things and but I didn't found anything in Leicester, I said look here there is all brick building here and they are all in one line, but in Kenya or there are all semis and all that. So when I came to Melton I don't know something and then I saw all the houses were in a row, I said what is this. So I says this is one of our houses, I said okay but then we, well I was welcome by the, that was my far sister you know, my relative sisters, one of my relation of, my cousin sister. So she was very pleased to see me. And then it was a hard time so that was tenth of October 1964. So I said okay so I went in house and she cooked food for me and eat and all that. So on the first night I was told that look here if you want to stay here you have to do this and that you see. You have to go to work you know. I said I have not come here to work; I have come here to study, so that is my whole thing. So said no because of the situation you can't because there was no, the advice wasn't right or may be there were people were hesitant to go to the job center to ask for any job, money or something like that. Unemployment benefits so they didn't want or they didn't know anything about how to you know about the colleges or part time courses or like that. So they says you got to work first and then you got to study because you have got no money. So I said okay. I will start working but at the same time my ambition is to study for my further studies, so that was only nineteen. So what, where did you work then? I tell you before, next day on eleventh October there was a heavy snow. I saw a carpet of, when I woke up in the morning; I saw a carpet of snow outside the house. So they told me, you got to go, look for work now. I said not in this weather. But says no you have to so, somebody gave me one of his big coat and he says can you go this way, you will catch a bus, it's from here and you got there is some areas, for the factory area, we call it, we used to call it industrial area. So go in, go each industries, each factory and ask for the any vacancies and there will be written on the window there are vacancies or no vacancies. But I went to look for them; there was no vacancy so. Some of the some job I found is which is not suitable for me. Some of the cleaning job or whatever I said no I am not going to that job, I will find something else so I found a job in TJ Brooks which is a. they used to make some spare parts for the aero plane and all, plane and all that. They used to make some bulbs and parts so they gave me a job. They found me okay because they wanted somebody because at that time people used to come from India or they are the other Eastern countries and may be their English not very good at that time, they found me okay so they had fit me into one of the factory floor. So I was good for them. So I worked there for six months there and then I said this is not enough for me so I started work with the bus conductor as a bus conductor was very rare. This at the same time during that period I found something that I couldn't go for the studies, so I went into Charles King and all myself. That was a big, it is a college, this college is Leicester College now but there is a Charles King College of further education. So I went in there and I studied, enroll myself there so, I was going in the, it was difficult for me, for life was difficult for me. I used to come from the work at five or six o'clock and the evening classes didn't start till 6:30 so I had to rush it to go there. So you go straight from work to College? Yeah, just. What you were doing, accountancy or? No, I started doing some Admin job, Admin work which was everything there on little bit of accountancy and typing, all clerical work and I wanted to finish my GCSC there. So I took some English and history lessons there, for couple of years there. And what was the Leicester community like at that point because that was quite earlier on this and before there was lots of people arriving I think? Not in 1964. '64. 1964 was you, if you are talking about the Asians it was not many. It was before everybody came from Uganda and Africa, yeah. Not before, yeah. There was not many Asians in Leicester. I mean there were Indian origins were there and there was very little people coming from East Africa not many. Those who came from East Africa either they came for further studies or they just keeping their relations, there was no even business there for anybody own, their own business at that time and hence it was. They were all working in the buses or factory anyway or railway station anyway. So in 1964 was not many people there but people start arriving in Leicester after 1966, people from Tanzania, Asian from Tanzania they start coming, from Malawi they started coming and 1968 when Kenya, an exodus, they call it exodus I don't why they call that name exodus but people had to rush because they were given a time limit for the Kenyans in Asia, the Asians living in Kenya that those who has got British passport they can fly to England now otherwise in the future they have to apply for a visas or anything. So they said that you get an opportunity now. So in 1968 they, big flow of the people who came from Kenya. So what did your family do at that point? Yeah and then I asked my mother and father, in 1966 I had some money for their passages you know so my mother and father was and also my elder brother he came in 1965, my father-mother came in 1966. So did you get a place there then? Then we rented a place out in 1966 a house. Okay. And then 1968 I got married. I went to India. You went to India so, was arranged with family in India then? Yes. It was my uncle there and my father wanted me to go and get married so I said yes, it was exciting. Did you meet your wife to be then before you got married or? Yeah, I met her there before but there was, they knew my wife to be they knew the family, my father and they knew my brother knew the family so, it was a good family and good thing and so we met there and then I got married in India. I went for six or seven, six weeks and I got married between that period I had to take a quick decision. I guess it was very quick. And was that your first time going back to India after you left? Oh yes. I found yes, I found a lot of change because I knew where I was going in the village because I didn't know what Mumbai like or Bombay like but, I knew where I was going in India. So, I found where we used to stay in the small house there, and I have seen that and all that. My uncle was there and he says me look here when you were young you were, you used to stay here, you used to go in this school and he used to show me. And we went to, we had some farm there, and my father had a farm there because my uncle was looking after that and he took me round to the villages, farms and everything. So it was a experience for first time. Just to go back again. Back again that was first time. And then, so did your wife then come back with you or did she come sometime late? No she came because she was, she get married while she was a student you know so she had to finish her study so, she waited there for six months and she joined me. She come on her own as well? She came on her own, yeah. What does she think then on arriving in the U.K., was that her first time over here? Yeah she was, her first time. She would be, it would be strain for her because she left her parents there and she is, any girl who whatever the religion is but if they leave their parents, they go to someone else's house, so it is a different family. Is like a second life. So it changes a lot for her and it was a big change for that, because she left her parents then she came here as a family. Yeah, and when she came here then did she just become a housewife or is she working? No she became, you know people when they, when my mother said so she has just come now, she shouldn't work straightaway but she was feeling bit bored at home so she found job herself. She found a job in G E Lighting. And she worked in that place until she got a volunteer redundancy about three years ago. Okay. So she is free then ever since? Ever since, yeah. And what was it like just community wise or were there any like Asian shops here or anything like that, how did you, you know get your spices or. Okay so here I was asking you about just the practicalities of living in Leicester. As I saying you were asking me about the any shops or anything in that time, yeah. Right there was no Asian shop, well one or two grocery shops in Highfields. They used to provide some Indian groceries and Indian vegetables once a week; they used to take the orders from home. Because there was not many Asians at that time so, they used to come around to the houses and said what do you want this week. So used to deliver at home mostly, you didn't have to go there so that. So there was some fresh vegetables even but not much, it's not a variety. So there was two shops in Highfields. There was one shop on Belgrove Road that was later on that was about 1967 or '66. Just one shop on Belgrove Road. That is Asian shop and there was other shops in there. It was only first shop for the Indian grocery was on Belgrove Road. What was Belgrove Road like then before, what kind of shops were before? Oh that was yes. That was interesting yeah. There was not a dual carrier; Belgrove was a single lane there. And the businesses were running down, they were running down. You see there was no, you can see the fly over it wasn't there then. So there were big factories there, British you know shoe machinery where you see the shopping center now. That was a big place there and nothing much then some shops there. There was a very old cinema called Belgrove cinema, which was shut down, there was a Woolworth there as well, on Belgrove Road Woolworth. There was a super market there, I can remember there was a super market, Woolworth, and motels; it was some interesting, yeah. Some woods chemist was there you know, can't say woods Woolworth in the same Belgrove Road now. There was three big shops and then there was some you know shops for the European shops and all that. There was a funeral place (inaudible) that was on the Belgrove Road but they were all running down some of the businesses there. So when people starting came in from Kenya in 1968, they started their own business because some of their, some business in mind so they start buying a corner shop for a start. They went in a newspaper or anything of license work on the shop. They were doing fine that time because there was not big shops and people in the main road they were not interested in doing much of business and say I think they were mainly retiring or so the corner shop was doing very well that time. So people due to the whether and due to the circumstances they didn't wanted to go further. They would just go to corner shop and buy bread or anything like that. So they started a corner shop and gradually they started coming into the main road so, there was another shop on Belgrove Road, which is a Sari Mandir, which is now a big sari shop. He bought a shop on Kensing, on corner of Kensing Street and there is one of the jewellery came then one two and they started. And then they exploded. Exploded but at one time we were thinking that they might before that they thought they might demolish shops there and make the road wider so the traffic for the North and South can go from Belgrove Road so that was one time. But once since the Asian start coming from Kenya and Uganda this economical situation completely different. All the shops brought lot of economy to Leicester. And especially to that little area. Little area so Belgrove Road become a good well they call it a golden mile now. Yeah I heard that. But they are doing well so as a business, as Asian business they grow well because they have got a family business from this. There is not much employment because, they have got their own family looking after the business, everybody is into it. If the person in the family, if he is studying, if he knows accountancy he used to do the books. Somebody is good for something they used to do. What did you do then as you were quite young still at that point and maybe didn't you have much time but just to socialize and to make friends or anything like that? Well my most, I mean my weakness was cinema. I like to go, I used to go see lot of pictures, specially Indian films in Leicester. They have in there, yeah. And even in 1961 when I came they used to run some shows you know on Sundays and on Evington and which is all collision and they used to run shows there so I used to go, every Sunday I used to go, shows. So that was my good entertainment. I have some students friends so I used to go in a polytechnic for Saturday night out for any you, discos or like that and that time you know the popular was Cliff Richard and Shadows and I can't remember most of them now, that was my favorite song and so Beetles and. So we used to go in a, I used to go out with a you know some students at the polytechnic, some of them were my friends, they used to buy me a ticket there and so we used to go there and pass the time. That was before I got married. Okay and what about was there much mixing between the different communities I mean had the Caribbean community started arriving at that point or? Carribean community was there and that was already there and there was some people from Pakistan also there and people from Northern India, they were already there in Leicester since 1955s or 60s, they were 1950s they were there. And some of this people from North India Punjab they used to have some Hosiery firms as well. They used to do Shoe or Hosiery firm. After Caribbean was there, yes, they were doing, they were working for each for the factories or like that but not many but they were all living in one area like Highfields or no problem at all. We are all living in a like a brothers and so no problem at all. And did you ever then and also coming up today's did you have experiences sorry. Right, yeah I was going to ask you did you ever experience any racism then over the years? No, no. I think I would say no and yes because people, not the people I mean the host community, they were not aware of the anybodies culture or religions. There was less awareness, the only think this people are from Asia or India like that. There was a respect for Indians at time because when you see when people used to see, when I first came the people, when used to see someone with a sari and I was walking with my wife and the citizen maybe this side, they used to respect, oh look at that, what a lovely sari and there was some Indian restaurant, there also, they like to go curry restaurant all that. But there was some sort of a distance there was a distance. The host community was not trying to mix straightaway with the Asian and Asian was not mixing with the, like we are doing now. They were just trying to avoid each other or favor like that. Even I mean the people who I mean the elderly people or something they were not accepting us and you know it was for hard them to accept us as a citizens of this country. It was bit hard but gradually they know because we are here to stay there is no problem but at that time we were called immigrants. If you seen them, even in the Leicester Mercury or whatever you will see the headline, you don't see Asians and immigrant, we were classed as immigrant at that time. Okay. Even though you were a British citizen. But I mean that was the word for it immigrants from some. So when they say all, they were, if they come we won't find the job, you know the people, less people when they are out of job and all that and a bit scared you know. I mean in 1972 when Uganda people came here after the blessings of Idi Amin so people in the Leicester City council they advertised in the news paper in Uganda, "that please don't come to Leicester, Leicester got a lot of unemployment." Oh, they do that? Wow. Many time. And we still, is an history we still say that now that Leicester City Council placed an advertisement Uganda August in the newspaper in Uganda that don't come to Leicester because we have got lot of unemployment. I think people were scared that if this people come from outside they will be taken over all other. There is always a fear isn't it? Did you see individual attitudes change in there as more or more people came? Well you see this. Because you were able to witness it right from and there was just a few, right up till you know when everybody came then when Uganda? I think gradually it did change because in the beginning they become neighbor, people I mean the white people they do not like the smell of the Indian next door Indian frying something or making a curry you see or they might be wanted people to even to go out or slam the door or like that. So some sort of differences were there at that time and some of them they start moving out you know from this area and they went to their big posture or their suburbs you know wherever they found the thing I can't imagine what this area would have been like then before. I want to ask you then, what did you, how did you progress then throughout the years, did you carry on then with your education or you know were you working? No then I found a job. I found it because of my ability and all that I found a, I secured a very good post in the Shoe Company as a dispatch clerk there and I worked there for thirteen years as a dispatch clerk and then I moved from there to Leicestershire Health Authority. I worked there for twelve-thirteen years there. And then I, and that's how I changed my job. This is only my third job in, I am working for Leicester City Council now and this is my only third employment. I have kind of got your history now, you know the fact and what happened and this that, you know that but I wanted to kind of got your history now, facts and what happened and this, that but I wanted to kind of wanted to just ask you about your religious practices and we touched little bit on your own families background but then what about yourself and how much did you practice when you were in Kenya and how much do that change when you came here and how is it changed since you moved here then as well, presently? As I told you earlier, Draupadi that when I first came in Leicester and as I told you that when I was in Kenya I was very fond of Navratri festival and so I joined in a local group, I think we made a local group of Garba and we had our first Garba at one of the Church building and that was in 1967. Was the first one. '66 I think it was first Garba. Okay. So I joined in their group as we made some group and said lets have a Garba, while we celebrate Navratri here, so that was it so we start from there as my, so my religious activities started from there. At the same time I was involved with a language classes Gujarati classes in Leicester so they were teaching Gujarati in their so they says do you want to be a teacher in that say, I said I am not very professional to be a teacher or suitable to be a teacher to teach Gujarati but I will help in the community so I become a part of it so from that community we build this Navratri group. So I started there as my religious things. So from there we, my community activity started in since I came in this country because I wanted to be active all the time so I, we had this Navratri group and all that and with the Indian Education Society teaching Gujarati and then from there Hindu preacher started coming from Kenya and from India and we had a one recitation of one of the preacher who came from India, he used to sings Bhajans and all that. So I got attract to that people you see that person and our group you see from Indian Education Society we used to go there and we form a Bhajan group there with the blessings of the Ram Bhakt. So we used to hire a hall for this persons from India so we used to have a Bhajan and recitation there. From that he gave inspired us that why don't you have your own place of worship because there was a Church hall and we were asked to be out by nine pm or eight pm but Ram Bhakt, one of our inspirer of this temple he said you must have your own place so nobody tell you to go at this and nobody gave you a time limits so you can have your own place of worship and have your own shrine there. So we decided as a group to look for a place for worship. So who was in this group with you then? Was there many people or? There were about eleven people in the group and I was the youngest person in the group so, I wanted to be active that time. I said look here if you are looking for this place, you must have something in Leicester. So that took me in the, we made, we formed a committee, there's a foundation committee. Where was I? Okay yeah you were telling me about the committee to buy, a premises. Yeah so at that time we had no money, because we had only nine pounds you know there. So for that money we couldn't do anything so we started going house to house. During that we were looking for then we found this place was for sale but the congregation of the Baptist Church was going down and the people was going down so, they wanted to sell this big place and they wanted to buy a small place. So this used to be a Baptist Church? Baptist Church, yeah. So they wanted to sell this place and we had no money so, we bargained it or something about nine thousand five hundred pounds this place but we had only nine thousands in pocket. So people who had some money so they, they gave us some loans of about three hundred pounds, two hundred pounds, we made about one thousand, two thousand pound. So we went to bank and said look here we are going to buy this. Bank said you got to raise some money before we can lend you some. So we went house to house wherever the Indian Hindu house was, we used to go and say look here, we are buying this Church and we want to build a temple here you know. So we got five pounds, two pounds, one pound and we raised up to four thousand pound but that was not enough because we wanted nine thousand five hundred pounds. So there was a loan, we need a loan so five thousand pounds, are we going to get a loan because in that time they want a security. So four of our trustees we gave the security, if we can't repay they put their house as a security. So they put their house deeds as a security, the bank loaned us five thousand pounds so we acquired this building in 1971, July 1971 at nine thousand five hundred and fifty one pounds. We paid all the and then we started paying the bank loan then from there and soon we started going to people or the people started coming here. So whatever we used to get the liquid money we started paying the loan and in 1974 we installed the shrine Murtis of Radha and Krishna, which was brought from India. And a gentleman who came from India called Mahesh Kothari, he came he said he wanted some old clothes from India, the people in India because he was running a deaf and dumb school there and he said there are some people in India in the villages who get no clothing in somewhere. We call Adivasis so can you give me some clothes, old clothes and I will send you Murti and we collect some lot of clothing here and we send about ten or fifteen bales of clothes to India and in return he got a donor from India to donate us Murti of Radha and Krishna. So then how did the community then get developed from there all then? Yeah then we had this place open in 1971 and then people start coming invites preachers from India, from everywhere and when the preachers come in we used to get good gathering. At the gathering we used to ask for the funding for money and then we renovated some of the buildings because there was a old Church building and there was a school and all that. So from that money we started renovating it to look like, we build a shrine in the middle of the temple. I don't know whether you can remember about three years back or four years back if you have a-- There was the big flat. Big flat in there and there was a wooden thing, can you remember. So that was it, so then we build that in there and in 1977 we installed the shrines of Shiva and Shakti, in 1985 Ram Darbar. So people start, in 1968 and 1971 people started moving to install Radha Krishna, Ram Laxman and then people start, lot of people start coming from East Africa Malawi and Leicester become like a multiracial society and there was already one temple before in Leicester, which was Hindu temple in Leicester in Cromford Street there was couple years back, that was founded in 1968 and this was in 1971. So that was one small temple in there. So people start congregating in one place and after that people from the different community or what you call a caste that made their own committee as well or community center like that. They started building community center. So that become a community, some of the community have their own committee, they used to have their own Navratri festival as there in the big halls, Church Halls everywhere. What was the main community then that established. Was there a specific caste that worked together then to make this temple or was that just everybody --? No this was all Hindus. This was only one community that is Hindu community. Okay. This didn't belong to one caste, this belong to everybody. Shree Sanatan means for everybody so this become more stronger, yeah. Okay. Can I ask you just a little bit about your own personal beliefs then as well. You know what actually makes you yourself then a Hindu, obviously there is a lot of external practices and you know your involvement in all that? Well I have been involved in so many activities in Leicester so far. As a Hindu belief since 1970 when my when we bought this temple my heart is here with this temple with Radha and Krishna. I do believe in other temples as well, I do go for my pilgrimage as well in India, every two years I go to India. Where do you go? I go all over. I travel most of the religious places like North, last time, last December I was in Kerala, Rameshwar, Kanyakumari, I was there everywhere. So I do like to visit the places, different places in India, study it and pay my respect. But my heart is always here with Shree Sanatan Mandir because my first daughter was born in 1970 since then I am here with this temple. So I am more dedicated to Shree Sanatan Mandir and not only Shree Sanatan Mandir because I have got, because I am involved with the Gujarat Hindu Association, which is the Umbrella Organizations, where they have all the cultural activities. Cultural there you have a Ras Garbas competition every year. I was a Convener of a Ras Garba competition for many years. So that was, I was one of the founder there; and also the other societies like National Council of Hindu Temples U.K., which was founded in this temple. National Council of Hindu Temples U.K. is the head; Shree Sanatan Mandir is the head quarter of the NCHT. So I was a secretary there for five years. Because I want you to, I will ask you what you have asked me. Okay. You will reverse it. No I am going to ask you, I say Draupadi how did you get your that name. Okay, I will tell you that. Are you preaching Hindus? My parents are Hare Krishna devotees. Hare Krishna devotees. So they were before I was born so, I have been brought up with the whole Hindu. And you are practicing Hindu now. Yeah. It's nice to hear that and where are they now. They live up in the Northeast, they used to live in Leicester when they moved up about ten years ago, they moved up to Durham and then I moved back. So what are you doing here, studying here? I am doing this job. This is my full time work. With Hindu studies group in Cambridge. Yeah, in Oxford yeah, I work there. In Oxford, you are working in Oxford. Yeah, I am working, I used to stay in Oxford. I stayed about two to three months but I didn't like living there. Do you travel a lot? Yeah with this work I travel all over the place. So. So what we will do, Draupadi, that we will involve you, involve with Hindu Utsav radio in one of the children programme as well, youths' programme, youth, specially the youth programme. We will ask you or you tell us your experience. That's smart. You tell us your experience. Okay yeah. That will be cool. And this is. All right. You are coming to my programme first, ninth and tenth and then I will introduce you to the other programmes, children programme. That Rebecca, what you are, I mean Draupadi, what you are doing now and I can tell about all your choice group. Because that's another thing that I wanted to ask you as well because we are bringing this exhibition around the country, it's going to start off in London and then go up North but then I wanted to be in Leicester for quite sometime, I was wondering could I start it off in this temple here. I wanted to bring to the temples every week you know different temple but I wanted to ask you would it be okay to start here, to have a like the launch in Leicester here so then you know the media and stuff can come to this temple. Would that be okay? And then I can talk to you later then. I will help you out whatever we can. That's okay. So you get back to this, I get this finished. Yes back to that. Well this is our maintenance man here now, watch out and he is our secretary, Mr. Prakash Namdev.