Hinduism This is an interview for the British Hindu Oral History Project. It's the 25th of July, 2004. 25th July, 2004 sound Sound Cassette English Oral Interview Interview Abhijeet Joshi 141 Siresh Nallanthigal Male Britain

Bristol U.K. second year computer science Study Continue EN Telugu, Hindi, English All right, first few some background questions about your family. Where are your parents from? Originally they are from Andhra Pradesh, which is the Southeast coast of India. And where, is that where your family's from as well? Yeah basically we have got, my mom, dad, myself and my sister they are, my immediate family in Britain. And then we have got my grandparents who are still back in Andhra, in the town called Narsapur, which is my mom's side and then rest of my mom's family, yeah, had two brothers and their families are still there. And oldest, two oldest brothers were in Hyderabad, which is Capital of Andhra and my dad's family are mainly based, some a couple of people, brothers and sisters still left in Hyderabad but mostly in America now. They immigrated to and they have settled there. And have you been back? To India. Yeah. Yeah we go pretty much, twice a year, twice every other year so, go once every other year. That's it. When is the last time, but sorry, when is the first time you went there, your first experience of going back? I believe it was 1985 which was when I was 2 years old, so I sort of remember in bits. But that's the first time that I went when I realized that was kind of back, it was probably 1993, which is, there is a big gap. We didn't go between '85 and '93 financially and things that wouldn't amongst have settled up so. Then we went in '93 for two months, which is the time when I met all my relatives for the first time basically. Which I remember, that was pretty awesome, meeting everyone and so much fun as well that's six brothers, three sisters. Mom's got four brothers and a sister and they have all got sons and daughters and things so, quite a lot of people. Not sure if you know anything about a little bit but may be if you could tell me about your mom and dad, what's their name? Well dad's Ram Nallanthigal and my mom's called Jyotirlata. And he is from Andhra as well, on the birth from Andhra. He studies his Electrical Engineer and he went to university of Andhra then went to IIT Bombay, which is one of the top institute, technology institutes in India. And from there he got a scholarship for South Hampton University where he did his masters. And then he went to Birmingham to do some further studies for two years and now he works for the Ministry of Defense. And you what, it is your work overseas in this country? No he is in this country, he is based in Bristol in Applewood. He works for it's the where they relocated, they de-centralized Applewood. So he is, now he is the change manager on the (inaudible) project. So and then my mom's at she works part time in a nursery and she is also quiet fantastic. So and you live in? We live in Bristol. I am at University here. So I have stayed up here, well it becomes with, well I am here anyway so, I have got job up there, so. So what you studying? I am doing computer science for software engineering. I am just about to go into my second year. And what's the idea, what's your planning? Well originally I wanted to do Medicine but, I thought, sort of decided not to at the last minute so did it's all blind and I just went for the next best thing which I thought was competitive at that time which was computer science. I don't know if I am going to go into computer science afterwards say, may be a push I might go into web design, but I am thinking of completely changing track and may be going elsewhere. And I am not entirely sure I haven't really thought about it, but now definitely not gonna be a programmer. Too boring? Too boring. Do you know what year your parents came up here? I think my dad was over here in around 1970. He has been about thirty-four years here and I think my mom came in 1978. She, they married in '78. And she came over pretty much straightaway with dad so that was her first time. Do you know if any sort of like may be hardships that happened the first time they were here or was it quite easy for the, your family? I have not really spoken to my dad about it because he was here obviously before; I think he pretty much integrated to university quite easily. He was quite happy with it and he was used to being away from his home, anyway in India. So he was all right and he had been here for nine, for about seven years before my mom came over. So he was able to show her the ropes. Plus he had also made quite a few good close family friends, he made and they welcome my mom. So I think they, the problem she has had with language and also in India, she is from a quite wealthy family where they did everything, she didn't, she never had anyone to cook, she didn't have to cook or anything, people cooked for her. So coming over here, we haven't got that. So she has had to learn to and clean and do everything what a housewife would do. And which she has done really well and so the main difficulties for them and I still feel, for my mom is she misses her parents and she misses being around immediate family because there is no one, you can't just say, right I am popping over to my sister's house or I want to get on the phone to my parents all the time because it is so expensive and they are not just there. And we are actually a four people family here, that is as close any people we have are us. So I think that's quite trying for them in times because they just you know some times they just want to be over to relax and send us to an uncle or someone. There is no way of doing that. So that's one of the hardest things. So you said you had was that a brother and a sister? Of course sister. Sister. Yeah, Sarika. How old is she? She is seventeen. She is in, she has just finished her first lower six, she has just finished lower six, the first year of 'A' levels. Yeah. And I just wanted basically like being in the U.K., you are born here, you grow you know, what was your connection or when you went back or when you go to the temple, do you feel that you automatically fit in with the whole programme or do you feel that, because? Yeah I see where you coming from. Because you are living more isolated I guess so I mean how's that? We have been brought up pretty much not strictly but mom and dad are quite strong Hindus. So they have always, we've always had that influence from our home, we do Pooja and we afford the celebrations and we have got pictures of the God Idols everywhere and things and generally we speak to our family from home a lot. I don't actually feel left out when I come to this temple specially which have been part of the Balaji Youth Group, which is a week long camp, which has really helped to integrate and helped me identify with Hindus. And when I come here I don't feel left out because I know everyone and they all know me and I am able to help out and do service and not be isolated any way and everyone here is in the same boat basically, all the children who come here are basically all British born Hindus. So it's okay. When I go back home I do stand out a bit, I mean my sister and myself we do stand out when we go because we are different looking, the environment other than what we, it's obviously the way we brought up and the environment that we are and what we eat and everything, we don't look like your average Hindu, Indians when we go back there. They can pick us out, I mean the locals can pick us out no problem. Yes, you are quite fair. Yeah, exactly it's just, it's too innocent. I don't know what is, especially even if I dressed like they did which I don't, I wear jeans and things you know. In India they wear cotton trousers and shirt, but even if I dress like they did, they can just point me out and then my sister as well, we are quite fair as well for being from South India. So that's one of the thing, which so makes a bit a show when we walking down the street and but when we go into the temple, all that just seems to disappear, the priests are pretty easy about it, they don't point us out or anything, they just, it just all happens and because we have always got some relatives around us that help, they do it for us. The transition is pretty easy, so I never actually feel isolated or anything like that. May be, yeah may be a little bit when I am India, but not really, because I have spend about two months of last year there on my own and just with them, without my anyone of my family from here, just on my own over there and looking after myself and that helped a lot just to integrate into. Where did you go in India? I stayed, I went to Hyderabad. And I toured a bit of Andhra Pradesh. And look I went to all my family's house, it's you know because in India the distances are bit bigger than here. So to go to from my granddad to my uncle, it's an overnight train journey and things like that. So I did that on my own and I also went down South to Tirupati and to see as where the Balaji is meant to be and things so. Which is you know, it's just an amazing experience, especially to be on my own. I didn't have people just arranging stuff here so I can just see how I go on and how, and to be fair they are one of the most friendliest people I have ever met and they really help me, everyone there really care. I don't know if you are like religious practices in your family. Okay. Like you touched on it a bit when you said like they are quite you know. They are. You know, you do the Pooja and the stuff so in your family, I mean is that always been a case when you are growing up that there always has been like pooja in the morning. Yeah. And you go to temples, stuff like that. Pretty much my mom normally, my dad every morning after his bath he goes and stands before you know, the picture of God and just says some few words very quickly. He's done it all his life and before he goes to bed he says something and he's taught us prayers and things. But he has left up to us whether we want to do it. But we always have a Idol namely, but when I am at Union stuff I have got couple of Idols there that I keep on my shelf. Which deity you have? I have lord Ganesh. He is meant to be the God of Knowledge, you know I have and I also have Hanuman, he is the monkey God, the one that looks like a monkey. He is the God that is meant to give you strength and so I have those and also it's, that the Hinduism is they are not individual Gods because the way I perceive it, there's just only one, it's just how you see it at all these different idols that people have, they are not different, they are just different incarnations of the same being. So I have those two because I one, I look for knowledge and I look to be confident in myself. But then I also have a ring of Venkateshwar Balaji which is the, he is the main incarnation and from him comes everyone else, Lord Rama, Krishna comes from that so, but and yeah so I have that. But my mom is like every week she does a big, on Saturday, she wakes up in the morning and does her Pooja and she makes the food and she bit like presents it to the idol just to be blessed before we eat and things. And then temple wise probably, we come to this temple may be once a month because it's quite a drive but there is we have got like a temple in Bristol which we try, which compared, I am not there now but my parents try to go at least once a week so it's. They are totally, this one is of, they are totally different because that's North Indian temple mainly run by Gujaratis, so it's the whole different emphasis, they have Krishna, Rama. Yeah. And we these South Indians, we are mainly for Lord Balaji. Yeah. Yeah it's totally different and secondary church and this is. Yeah it is when you go to the temples, I have spend my whole life around a temple. All right. Because you know, where are we brought up and stuff, but you could definitely pick up the mood in the temple very quickly when you go into. Yeah, you can. And like Balaji this one is, so quite a good mood actually. Yeah I think, I like here. The only thing that supports this this temple is the committee, the people that run, it seems to tend to get a bit over ambitious, that sort of spoils the ambiance. But if you come here on a normal, this Sunday was obviously very busy, but if you come here on the, probably I came a couple of weeks ago just on my own from Uni just to come and sit and do some, I had to updates on web for the menu on the computer, so I came on my own. And it's so peaceful and I let yourself stand as in silence for a about an hour and a half while the Pooja was going on, but it was just so quite and peaceful and that's what I like about it is. Do you know your family ever had any sort of family Gurus? No. Or they stay at your house, any Gurus or Swamis that stay at your house? We, well again this is all from our, because we have been a part of the youth camp now for about since about '97 me and, my sister and my self. Yeah. There was a Swamiji that came, he is called Swami Siddhananda. He is part of an, he has build his own ashram of self-knowledge and he has got ashrams all over the world and they are mainly based in, the main headquarters is in Madras. Yeah. And we got on really well with him and he has got a pupil, say a Brahmachari called Vish, he was Vishvachaitanya. He, actually he was here for a, he used to work here as well. And he came for the camps and run the camps and they are very-very learned people and very young and I think this Swami Siddhananda he is only fifty. And the other guy he is about thirty, not really old too but the amount of that they have brought together and taught themselves and how they understand the world and their outlooks and everything, they are absolutely amazing. So as a sort of, they have probably been, we have adopted them as our family Gurus and they come, whenever they come from India and they always stay with us for a few days and dad organizes talks around the local community for them to do and things. So, that pretty much what we have to look after them and they really help me, I mean if I have any problems they will it, they will email us, so they are 21st century priests yeah. And they have got my mobile phones that, so they are just if I am remembering, I will just ring them or email them. They are always willing to try and help me out. Really awesome. I know, it's kind of a bit of a strange, I have got a couple of questions, which are of kind not very easily answerable, but you know what makes you a Hindu? Oh! It's a hard question. Like what makes me a Hindu is what I have been taught from my parents, the way they have been brought up not me not, I am not talking culturally but their values in religious terms. When they talk about another being such as God and they talk about doing pooja and they talk about you have got to come to the temple and do Seva. And my understanding on that is I have, they have given me always the choice to choose and Hinduism I believe, I really strongly believe that whatever anyone tells me, I really strongly believe that it is not meant to be a religion, it is just meant to be a way of life. And what Hinduism does if you read the Bhagvad Gita and stuff which I have read snippets of it, I have not read it fully, but any other religion takes our duty, they always give you a guide, they always tell you what they perceive as the right way or what you should do. But always at the end of the day you have got your choice of whether you want to do it or whether you don't want to do it. And you always, there is always a conscience within you that says, that knows inherently what is pretty much right and what is wrong, it's just being able to do the right thing. When you have desire to do others. I think it's all a free choice, I think I am a Hindu because I have chosen to follow the values that I am given by my parents and by the temple and when there is camps such as the Balaji Youth Camp or there is anything that is involved with Hinduism, I like to be part of it. And I think myself, I relate more to this religion than any other religion and it guides me in more ways than any other religion would do. And I just, I believe that what advice I am given from priests, from the teachers, from my dad, from my mom, I think I agree with most on the whole and that's because I have, my inner side of me, it says that yeah this is right this is how I should do it. And that's one of the things that makes me a Hindu, which I have chosen to follow by the values that are written, I abide by the scriptures. Do you believe in Karma or Reincarnation? Reincarnation? Yeah I think I do. Not sure of it yet. Because I believe in God, I believe that all that we hear about people like Rama, Lakshman, everyone, they are all reincarnations of the being. They have, they all come down to guide people, they don't tell them what to do, they never come down to sort of say right you are doing this wrong they have not done that. They have not come to kill enemies, they come to guide the good or to guide what they think is right and then at the end of the day it's for you what to choose. What I am trying to say is just the underlying factor beneath the all, there is always given a moral. And that moral is something that we can choose only after they have done all that killing, the God they come down, they can do all that killing, they kill the bad guy. But there is always that transfer another bad guy to come straight, they can go back and they have taught what they had to teach and it's up to us to carry it on. Yeah. What I am going to say, right what do you feel, what happens to you when you die? And not just when you die this time but what at the, you believe in reincarnation, you believe in life you know, you have another life and if you were to do pious things then you will get benefit in next, but what is your ultimate? When you are everything. What do you mean everything? Because I believe that God is everywhere. And so I believe that when that ultimate, when you do finally pass through into the next phase, when you have done your, when you have your reincarnation, I believe you become part of everything. You become part of the God. Yeah. What's I am going to say some, it's a little bit unlike because you have been the Hindu like you can. Yeah. Was asking a few questions about it. Okay. Like the Hindu today, generally in the U.K., the younger generations would you say that they are less knowledgeable than the, you know than the fathers and stuff, their fathers were at that age, do you think it's? In the Hindus? In the Hindu community. Yeah, I do think that, I think. Do you think that it's changing or is it? I think it's slowly changing and then there is a massive thing now what I have noticed in the last few years is that not Hindus but people identifying themselves as Indians or they are identifying themselves as Pakistanis or Bangladeshis or, we are beginning to identify ourselves as our country of birth. Not necessarily as Hindus but with that I think may be it will become the, wanting to learn more about where have we come from then turning around and saying that I am an Indian so, and then saying my parents are Hindus. So wanting to find out rather that will improve the knowledge, but at the moment I do think that my dad when he was younger had a lot more knowledge about Hinduism than I do, purely because he was brought up in a Hindu society. I bet I have a lot better knowledge of Christianity than he does, purely because I have been brought up in a pretty much Christian society when I was younger and when I was at school we had to go, it wasn't a religious school, it was a normal comprehensive, but we still once a week or may be once every two weeks, we had to go to the local church and we would have a talk by our Reverend and we would do some hymns and things. So I just think it's the environment that we are brought up in, I mean it will improve because you are taught, your parents do a good job of teaching us. But I don't know whether I will do, actually no because I don't think I will do as good a job of teaching Hinduism to my kids than my parents did to me, because they have that greater knowledge. The only thing that I can do for them is my limited knowledge pass on to them; send them to their grand parents to get taught or take on camps such as these, the Balaji Youth Camps. I am going there for like twelve years, thirteen years now. If it carries on, these things will make, will help children of the future to identify with Hinduism. But I would never force it upon any of my children, it will always be their choice when they want to or not but obviously the way I have lived my life in the way when they go and see my mom and dad and it will always, there will be some Hindu elements to obey, sort of abide us towards that, but they will never be forced to do it. And what about the other Hindu communities that like, because what Hinduism is so, it's very splinted in regards like, because you have the rights in certain things in any way. Yeah. You want. Yeah. You know that it's sort of fragmented, do you think that it's important for like all the Hindus of all the different groups to be more sort of, unanimous, to be more sort of. United. Yeah. Obviously it would be a dream. I think, if all Hindu segments, all came together and performed as one, I think it would be really amazing because it would strengthen Hinduism and people and then more people would be educated, no I am not talking about non-Hindus, but like me I had been educated even more if I had more people around me all the time. But I think the community is developed not only because of Hinduism being splinted and quite a free as a religion saying you choose what you want to do. But also because of the community spirit of India and if you look whenever you, other then if you know, if you talk to people they always will identify with themselves as the Gujarati's. They are a big strong community, the Punjabi's, the Andhra's we, a Telugu people we, so it's all a language thing. So that's one of the things that promotes that splint, that segmentation, it's the fact that in India every state has a different language and a different way of life. So they always stick together so as soon as we come to this country, my parents the first thing they do is, when we moved to Bristol six years ago, they tried to find out as many Telugu's as they could find and we have got about six-seven families that were together. But then after that we look for the next, then we look for the other Indian families around and become friends with them you know, because some of them we cannot identify with. But I believe if we all came together it will be great, but I don't think it would ever happened purely because of the segmentation in India. It's not that we are enemies or rivals in anyway but we are just comfortable with being with our Telugu people because obviously for my mom in one way it's a language thing, she prefers speaking Telugu all the time. And that's basically why when do our functions, when we do our stuff in the house like big poojas and we invite friends from around, more than often, more often than not we would probably first ring all the Telugu families to come then ring anyone else. But everything that would happen in the house would always be based around the Telugu way of happening and we would not cater for anyone else but we would be so, they have to adapt to how it is. So what about language all the time, do you speak? I speak Telugu fluently and I cannot, well I speak it pretty fluently. I can understand it completely, but I don't read or write. You don't read or write. No. Do you think it's important to learn your mother tongue? I do think it's important. Not only does it, it makes my mom happy to know that I can speak it and it passes on to my to the next generation, their history, but also to go home and it's the only way, it's the best way of communicating with my relatives because they are not strong English speakers and so. How about when you are in other parts of India what do you speak? Can you speak in Hindi? I can't speak Hindi. It's basically Hindi, if you can speak Hindi in India you can pretty much get away, get around the whole of the country because it's the second language, so they are taught there, they taught their own tongue but the next one is India, Hindi and then English as well they are both. English will get you around there is no doubt about it; you can talk to any, all the shop guys, the auto drivers, the auto rickshaws. They will all speak English with you, Hindi is the way to properly communicate but I don't speak it so I find it, I am pretty much as, unless I am in Andhra Pradesh speaking Telugu, I am pretty much foreigner in India. Yeah. Specially the rural areas. Definitely. And what about the caste issue, do you have any opinions on that? Being from the, I guess you are, you will be the second generation. Yeah, I don't really agree with the caste system so. Don't it really apply, do you think? It doesn't, I mean we always get, it still apply, it doesn't really apply but we were always told, you know they always talk about it when we are in India. I meant to be, I am a Brahmin, I am born into a Brahmin family, so I am the highest caste and on top of that I am a Vaishnavite, which is the highest caste of the Brahmin. But I don't believe caste is anything, I feel it's unfair to judge people on who they are born to because it's hypocritical. Because no one, it's just being judgmental on an issue that someone else can't, you can't do anything about it. I can't help being born to you, I was born to you, I can't help it. So if I start judging other people and saying, haan you were born if I would say the untouchable is where that used to be in India. You see if you judge people because of that I think that is totally and utterly wrong you can't, you judge people on who they are and what they make of themselves but then you still, they don't have to start putting them into sections. The in, well because I feel like there's some stories that go like, with the decline and specially messenger of Hinduism because of Muslims that like with the Brahmin class had some part to play with because there was a point in scenarios that they became extremely arrogant of their status. Yeah, right. And that did had some part to play with the big division of Muslims and that stuff, you know like may be and there is also stories of sort of the people who are from lower class are becoming Brahmins. Yeah. And visa versa. Yeah, yeah it all happens. So I guess do you think that in India it's not applicable either, in this age? It's not in this age I mean, not as much but I still do know the people when they do arranged marriages which is still happens, hell of a lot in India, still it's not going away, it's still arranged marriage is the first thing that happens, it's not the love marriage. They still stay in the, when they look for people, same caste. They still ask for people of the same caste, Brahmin to Brahmin even in my family now they still will ask to marry into another Brahmin family. It still applies but not as, I mean I think there is a lot more people are lot more open minded where they welcome people of all different backgrounds to come into their home. But underlying, underneath all of it, underneath the front is still that feeling especially to the generation before me like my father's brothers and things, they still that feeling that, I think even my father ideally would like me to marry, he would have, he wouldn't ever tell me to, but I feel that probably he would like me to marry a Brahmin Telugu girl. But he knows that, well I have been brought up here and he knows that it just happens who I am going to marry is, well even he is never going to fight against it but they are still the underlined thing I mean, they are in the generation before me. But I think it's pretty much phased out with our generation especially being British. And in India also I think it's slowly being phased out but there is still pressure from the parents that you know you want to please them so you will do whatever they, do an arrange, if you have an arranged marriage, you be with someone of your own caste. And what about like being a British, I guess I am not having it say but if I see a British-Hindu in India, I mean because what would you, if someone is going to say where are you from, you would say well you know you are from Britain or you are from England or you are from wherever you are born, but you know how would you categorize yourself? I always say, yeah I always say I am born in Britain well, on the forms and things I always say I am an Indian, Anglo Indian. So I am born in Britain but I am also an Indian. So I don't know it depends on the where I am or and they, when I go to India I say I am British but I am an Indian. When I am here with my friends I say I am a British because that's what I am. But essentially I am a bit of both, I am British, I have brought up as an English person and also I have very strong Indian blood in me and my background is from India. I want to ask you like, why do you think it is that Hindus specially and British-Hindus are the most sort of successful ethnic group in Britian? Well do you mean I was sort of. Any other group of people, that have come from different you know, if you take, you know anywhere else like you know Chinese or Japanese or. Okay. Or any of the ethnic group that's in the U.K. at the moment, why do you think that it's actually Hindus that. Is it really? Yeah. Even more than Muslim? Oh! Yeah. We are more successful as in the way that we have settled? In financially settled and also by integration. Integration. Integration wise it's because we are, our parents always teach us that we are in, we are not in our home country and we have to integrate as much as possible because our lives are going to be here. We are not, we never look upon ourselves, I have never looked upon myself as different from anyone else apart from what we see visually. I still see myself as British and I am British as who, anyone else who is born here. So I try and as much as I can, I always try and just do that, I don't try and pick point, push myself as different. And Hindu I will say we are pretty easy and laid back, we don't have strict rules and we don't follow or adhere to very strict rules and we don't, we are not harm, if you are a white you can't be with us. We try and integrate with everyone and financially and academically we are just always taught from a young age to work hard, work really, really hard. We have got no one else, we have got no one that can support us, so you mean work hard and do the best that we can. And that's just the philosophy we have in life we are not, yeah always we have that philosophy with. I think may be that's where the caste thing comes from, I think a little bit because the families that do come over, Hindu, Indian families especially that come over may be not in the beginning but now a days a lot more in the middle class families, they went to really good schools in India and so their philosophy on life for their children is to work as hard as you can, send them to good schools for education, first make a success of your life then sort out everything else. So I have always been taught, always just work as hard as I can in order to achieve the best I can, I have always wanted, always had to be that, not had to be it but it always been top in your class, top in whatever, it's just something that it's inherent within us. We are always told to do it and we obviously can. So that's the reason I mean. Okay this is the last question I would like to ask you, is there anything else you would like to add about anything you like? Any final thought or anything about the youth camp or anything sort of. Well basically, I would probably promoting the youth camp. No, even though I feel that in Britain it's relatively easy, I think it's easier than the lot of other countries to be who we are and do what we do, it's a very secular country. And it has welcomed people with open arms into it. There has always been problems internally, you have got you know, when all the beliefs clash for say for the example British National Party. When other peoples' beliefs clash there is going to be trouble and problems but on the whole I find it, I find being a British-Hindu in this country, I find I am comfortable over here, I have been brought up on a Councilor State so I had my trouble of racism, I have had a fair share, I had a lot of it. But I have always just got over it and I have always had friends around me, non-Asian, English friends around me always who always stuck up for me. And I think it's getting more accepted and people are developing a wider mind and broadening their minds to the fact that not everything is based on color or race, it's the person inside and you get more accepted for who you are and what you are. And I think that Balaji Youth Camp really promotes that within Hindu children, who don't know may be, who are not guided or anything it's welcome to anyone to come in and just try and identify with people of their own, people who experience things with like them, who they may not have met before. And they can talk about it and hopefully go back and be more comfortable with who they are and not be scared of who they are because of even though, I can't help what I am and you can't help what you are, but we have to be comfortable with it because without that there is nothing else, if you are not happy with yourself for what you are then I don't think life would be, ever be good to you. That's it. Thank you for your time. That's all right.