Hinduism 26th July, 2004 sound Sound Cassette English Oral Interview Interview Abhijeet Joshi 175 Narendra Parmar Male Surat

Birmingham U.K. six months course in engineering business EN Gujarati, Hindi, English Okay if you just like to speak your name into the microphone? Speak my name in? In straight into the microphone Oh the microphone, yeah. Hello, good morning or good afternoon, my name is Mr. N. Parmar. And today's date is the 26th of July 2004. 26th of July 2004 And day is Monday. And the day is Monday. Okay I would just like to start off. And time is 2 o'clock. I would just like to start off with a few questions just a little bit about your family background to get and understanding of where you are coming from? Okay. So if you could tell me where your parents were born? Well, my parents is born in India. He is a doctor. My father was a doctor, and he graduate in India. Whereabouts in India? Near Bombay, Surat district. Surat. Surat district, yeah. And he graduate in North Haridwar. If you hear about Haridwar. Yeah. Where is the Krishna Haridwar Gokul. And he qualified in 1942 and he came back home. What did he study? Doctor. Doctor? He has done, he is not M.B.B.S. but he has done Ayurvedic and plus little bit of Modern Medicines what do you call, not a fully qualified M.B.B.S. but he done both of them. Ayurvedic and he practice local. And he give his life with doctor practice, medical practice plus social worker. And he left us a good background left it you know good name. He passed away very young age. Age at forty-nine. Passed away. Where were you born? I born in India as well. Whereabouts? I born in India. Same Surat. Surat. Okay. Near Surat. Yeah. Surat is a district. Okay. Anyway and I came in '68 here, married. I engaged in India. My wife from Mombasa East Africa. And I came here and then I work in engineering firm start and then after certain years, two-three years time I work with my uncle, he had a business and then one and a half year or two years in a business and then I left London and came to Birmingham. In Birmingham continue working in a engineering firm and then because of the younger age I haven't qualified any particular trade. So I went to the Government training here in 1970, something like '74, something like that. And I done the six months course in engineering and then I got a Government-training course and then I got a job in engineering firm again in tool room you know, the making tools and they making the machetes, like a sugar cutting machetes anyway. Then I work up to '75 to '85 and then I bought my own business. Okay. Little paper shop and I run up to last year. Okay. So about nineteen years I done the paper shop business and now I am say I am semi-retired. Okay, now you give me about like a one-minute now, shall I am going to go back and ask you more questions. Yeah, okay. No Problem. When you were growing up in India what sort of area, because you just told me that it is a district. Were you actually living in a village or in a town or? Village. Ugath. Yeah. Okay, what was village life like there that time? Nice, simple, peaceful, no pressure, no tension. And did you live there the whole time until you came to the U.K.? Yeah, I educated there as well. You educated, all in that same area. So then you said that your wife is from Mombasa so was that an arranged marriage then with the families or? Why is that question arise? I was wondering. No why is it? Because. How is it because she is all in Africa and how did you meet her? No, I stay just in here as well. Okay. Because normally in Britains, the British people have a brainwash. They think majority is arranged marriage and mine is not. Okay. So. Where did you meet then? Same school. In same school. Okay. So the thing is particular where we came from near Bombay Surat is a many parents give them a choice. Yeah. Rather than arrange. Yeah. And we know that some part of India people don't give a choice or people who are some different group of people, they particular some group like a Muslims like a they look at for their relations daughter or boys, you know but not in ours, not in a some, some in hundreds. Okay. But majority the boys and girls give a opportunity to choose a partner where they like. Okay. And so in my case was a different. So she just happened to come from Mombasa and she was back in India. She came to Mombasa in India and she was in a school, same school. I hate that when the people ask this question. Yeah. Okay. I will take it back. No. So, then you both came to the U.K. together then or you had to come separately? No, she came first and then I joined her. She came first. So what was it like coming from because you said that all the time you stayed in that kind of village environment and then to suddenly come out of the village environment and did you come to London, did you stay first of all? London. Yeah So it is very different, a different country, it is a city as opposed to village is a small town. So tell me what you felt about the change, how your experience was? Nothing to feel, it is depend on individual personality and individual and how you get on with the different style of life and different style of countries and father was a doctor and connection with the, I was last. I finished my study in cities in college first year. And my father expired, anyway so it is the individual. How you mix with the society, how you mix with the different environment, different country depend how you can mix? So how did you find it's all personally? No, nothing difference. No difference. I can get on well with anybody. Okay. I am open-minded. Okay. And back because you said that you came in '68. '68, yeah. Yeah. So there wasn't such a big community at that point. People only really started to come. Yeah. That is right. In the early '70s, so how was it just for you know getting the basics, like getting groceries or the clothes or celebrating in a religious festivals or things like that. How was it at that time? That's right, yeah that's a good point yeah. I think at that time was very-very low. Not as you said as not much of a community but gradually pick up and when we move in from London to Birmingham and there is a first temple on Handsworth Gita Bhavan Mandir temple and they are the first one. And I still remember that was a church actually originally and they convert to the temple and I remember the first Navratri, you know dancing nine night, and I was the first to play the drum. So, as you said you know same thing not much community and after later on after '70s the people came from East Africa and population then arise here. But job wise also at that time was good. If you don't like this one job you go next door and you can find another job. And gradually later the years find harder to find the job because of the Government change here as well, crisis, oil crisis you know and so many things. Did you ever find there was any problems with racism or prejudice or anything like that? Did you experience? I think you find everywhere and you can still find it. People don't know under the skin is the red blood but the people have a different opinion, different thinking different, not educated that I am saying. Yeah. That's the things. Okay. Not educated on that sense. People have a degrees and graduate in like a materialize world but they are not educated, is the another philosophy like in a religious way or you can say spiritual way. And what about socially then, what did you do when you first came to the U.K. It's like what was there to do maybe outside of religious events and things, what was there to do socially at that point? I always keep in my mind to help the poor and help the back home education wise and socially you know like that. And originally my father before he passed away and since he is a graduate with another retired person pensioner he is also bright chap and two of them, they make nice little booklet for what is developing require. For what? What's a developing you know require for the local community for the local need and up to now we finished that project. Oh okay so you have been working on it, all that. Like a primary school, water supply and somebody from London, he went back home just to visit whole day and he noticed not clean water, there is a supply of water but not clean water. So what do you call that's a, what you call filters, and they bought the filters and they put it, so people get now clean water now. So health wise better. And made a primary school. Recently we are planning the people who are poor give them a free medicine. Because there is no national health, massive big country, one state is equal to this country. So and so many languages as well there, so that's another question, but we create about eighteen-nineteen people, we put some money in and we just send in the interest only. Money is yours. All right. Okay. We are sending the money only, interest only. So actually start last year that project over a year and possibly sometime this year will be properly organized and I going India this year in October, before the Navratri, Diwali so maybe get a form all things. And is this all based in your home district then? Home district. If everybody does that you know then cover the whole country. I am going to just ask you a little bit about the history of this community as well, the Laxmi and your involvement. Yes, when I came back in from London to here at that time I think I don't know exact year but I think after '70s this take pace '73-'74. Is anybody mentioned about year when they established this? I am not exactly sure. Round about after '70s anyway and I attend the meeting as well here when I was very young anyway. There is so many old peoples you know matured people than me, anyway and one of the chap who was a secretary or in the committee he is a lecturer. And I remember was a very-very tough time that time because less community and to contribute the money and to build the, you know community or the temple very-very hard that time very hard. Okay. And how you have been involved then you said you were there at the beginning? Have you been? No I just to open meeting I just attend. Open meeting I attend. And at that time I was young working and so not participate much. So you didn't have the time. Until last year I didn't participate much because of the commitment in the business so, now I normally I should be in a shop today if I had a shop then. But I sold the shop last year so, I can say give some voluntary help. So what did than happen then at this temple, what goes on in this temple itself, as I understand it is quite developed there? I think a year pass in a so many project now going on here. I just talking to the chap upstairs used to be our mother tongue lab upstairs other grant from Cam Lock or somewhere anywhere. But still can be done so many things like I say this is a TV there, if the supply, if somebody donated or somebody or temple can supply you know TV and video and DVD then we can do much thing for youngsters, like showing that maybe your mom and dad. They seen all you know Ramayana and Krishna Avatar and you can explain the youngsters because at the moment in a school what the education like a another religious or religious knowledge is just limited, just a brief. And the children's who born here they take it like a different way, like a story. Hinduism also they take it like a story king you know queen and like that but if you look at the, this week, you know the katha or next door. If you have a good knowledge and understanding how they effect with a, not only effect the Indians or Hindus they effect the all mankind. And never mentioned in our religious book is only for Hindus. Don't get me wrong it is open for anybody. So and originally we India start original language Sanskrit you know about it right. And all these language out of that and another thing also five thousand years ago Krishna mentioned you know the Gita what is spoken. After that all the religions was out Christians and Buddhism, Muslims and all and their calendar behind. Our is 2059 nearly. Really! So and 2059 or '56 hang one second. We are 54 years ahead than normal British calendar. Okay. 2004 now. If you add another 54 years 2058 sorry, running now. Okay. So I can say that proudly that the Indians are 54 years more matured more civilized than the west all over. With regards to calendars. Can I just ask you a couple of questions just about your own personal religious practices and how they have changed over the years. Were you from the religious family, would you say? Normal family. What kind of traditions would you say that you have carried on you know maybe with worship or you know specific Murtis that they worship? What do you mean worship in the temple or worship at home? At home or in the temple. Actually my father is a Ayurvedic and Arya Samaji, you know Arya Samaji? Yeah. You know about that. So they don't believe in Murti pooja but I am flexible. Either you go in temple so keep your mind in constant or you can do it at home. Only what you do from the open heart that is more important than go to temple. Okay. It is more important. Or go to church or anywhere. Yeah. And what about family Guru? Did your family have a Guru or do you yourself have a Guru? I don't believe in that. You don't believe in that. No I don't believe. Guru, yes you need it for a knowledge but you only have to find the right Guru. Guru shouldn't ask any money and give the free his knowledge then I call a Guru. Okay. Am I right? My philosophy? Yeah, I understand you really. And this is quite a general question but what do you actually feel makes you a Hindu. What are the beliefs and values that you feel actually makes you a Hindu? Simple answer for that. We Hindu we believe in Reincarnation you know that. So we don't know where we came from last born. Maybe I was Christian or maybe I was Muslim, I maybe a Jain or anyone so, I am not specific I believe in Hinduism or like that. What I believe as a human, a good human means what's your duty to society, to yourself to your family and whole world and then universe. Good Answer? Good Answer. And you mentioned Karma and that involve you know Reincarnation and whole thing. What do you perceive belief, what happened then at the end of it all or what is here? End of the death? My body? Yeah. Or what do you want to happen or what is the goal because there is this cycle of going around but do you believe that you will break free or what you want to be? We believe we Hindu believe 84 million times you know we reincarnate. This human bone you and me very hard to get or we are lucky to we are as human. Some children's born from the birth they are some blind, some are no paralyze, no arms or hearing problem or whatever the problem or with the disease from the born, hole in the heart. Why? We believe some of their Karma in the previous born or born before or born before so many in the past births they carry forward and if you are open minded, free, good nature friendly persons, so many basic things you know like anger and all the basic things if you not involve in them and you are a good human then you get a better chance to have a better life and maybe rather than normal life you maybe the next born with a princess. So the history or what you believe the people are like in all families where they come from, from background, good background then they got to born in there we believe that way. Or like a in a good families or in rich families but the rich families is using their money right way then they have a better prospect to the reincarnation other wise some of them family have they rich but their children's are in bad habits drugs abuse. So it is not right. Okay. Sorry my English is not so good. No, your English is fine. This, it's a kind of a strange question but I would like to ask people anyways. Have you ever had any would you call like a spiritual experience where may be have felt that there is God's presence that you can may be feeling or something watching over you or looking at you or? I can tell and take this my experience and then you apply in yours, it will help you I tell to success in your life forget about this job or research. The thing is recently I watching about you know soul the knowledge of the soul, recently I watching on the do you have a sky at your home, no I have a sky disk and the channel was eight to seven, sky eight to seven and eight to nine. Eight to nine they talk about one of the preach about Gita and in eight to seven they telling about in our own language Gujarati about Atma Gyan means soul knowledge and that's the brilliant. What they said we are all individual, we are as a god, but we have to live forgive everybody, if anybody do the mistakes forgive them. Whatever in the society now is all balanced so much ego in individual like I say example, like if you doing this job and if somebody you walking in a street or where you are, you are in top of the class you know this is your research. If you are top of the class in research so you got a proud, sorry like that's called ego. So you should have ego, so that's ego you making Karma, means Karma means you build up your Karma in ego ways rather than build up that Karma have a normal like a simple. So you carry the ego then, yeah. And live up like a when you go in a, do you go in a pub, you drink? No. Not doing now. Do you go in a any club or party or some thing some time you go no, you have been before, yes. Yes. Now, did you notice then what we talk, in a party or wherever you, what we talk, gossip. Yeah. What we do gossip some other people am I right? Yeah. Why are we doing for them. Counting as a they are pure soul, everybody the pure soul, colour browns colour religious don't count their pure soul. Any mankind you know pure soul and then you find out how you find, you find difference. Just good thinking like that. Another thing I am not so good, my English not so good and religious knowledge also I have got, I am having got enough, but if we got a chance to find the books in English and read that they made a books in English called "Krodh," you know Krodh means anger. Second book, I have got in my language. I haven't read yet, you know I bought some CD as well for that lady, she is doctor and she with this soul knowledge and she on the television you know every morning. So I get up 5:20 every morning without missing, I try and half past five to six one of his assistance, he speak in our Gujarati half and hour and she do it seven to eight. So if you get a find and another book were called a "Who Am I" who am I it's exclamation there. So to find out who the soul likes and all yeah, okay. And you make the people they said whatever you do whatever a job you do, you make your good life and we never reborn again. We never reborn again, if you follow their "Aagnya" Aagnya means like a five knowledge. Okay, that's good information. So do you feel then that you have progressed with your own spirituality then over the years you know, from getting this knowledge and from when you are young and till? That's right, when I went to London for the "Gyan" from that lady and there's millions of people in society but what she said, sometime is a time and the people you know right people contact then you get that knowledge. Everybody not turn up millions of people in the street or million of people in the cities. Yeah only hand full turn up. Hand full turn up, why some of the background of the previous born. So might my comment change you, and you follow. Some people in that Gyan knowledge ceremony, people came form Spain, Spanish speaking and she have a, organize that spiritual things in Spain as well. What's her name? Spain 300, 500 people attend in Spain. What they do speak in our language but they translate in Spain. Yeah, just translate into the different languages, yeah okay. What is your attitude towards the Hindu youth today, do you feel that they are more religious or less religious then say when you were a youth? Less and the blame go to the parents and the guardian. You know why, we not provide the services, we not provide the enough knowledge that's why I am saying that if the T.V. provide here and start from the younger people showing that what's the Ramayana, what's the Gita, what's Mahabharat? So it's a cheap T.V. and if you can attract from the young age then it is a, my son is married and his daughter, my grand daughter she come in this temple every Monday for learning dance, you know, Bollywood dance, Bollywood. My daughter encourage her and she started I think over a year or nearly two years, some now or but I was very pleased because of that way they come here. I know it's Bollywood I am not much keen in that side but indirectly that help to come to the temple. Second things after they finish this one-hour practice they go upstairs and pray the god and asked the questions then they come home. And every donation box she like to put some donation. Another thing when they come home they ask the question so what she did now, when she go to the local library, she try to get the some religious book, Hinduism book. So they want to learn more so you can divert younger age the children whatever you want it but as a parent and guardian so many things would not mean. Lots of temple, lots of churches, lots of most, but useless. The fundamental what we need we don't doing, in any society. And why the Christian also money, not money if you will come in to church. Why because of the, this and children's going in a drugs, drinking, drugs, fight, violence, football violence. Good comment? And just the couple of the final questions. Nearly half two. Yeah I know, we are really finished now. And how do you identify yourself now because you are from India, you lived in the U.K. for such a long time. Your family had grown up here, you have got grand children you know. You are also Hindu practicing Hindu so if somebody is to say who are you, what is the first thing that comes to mind? I am the man. That's it. Yeah that's it man. I am the man. That's it. Simple no I.D. and we don't know exactly after our death where are we going. So how can you say you are Hindu or Christian or where you come from you don't know that either. Okay, that leads me onto my second question then. Because I born in Hindu so I am Hindu now but who knows after my death. Okay, and my second question that was going to be, where do you see as a home now? Where do you see as home? Where do I see? As home, it's do you still see back home in India or home is here or? Flexible wherever you live is your home. Okay. When I run my shop eighteen years, nineteen years and I look after all my customers and nearby is old people flats like a control by a warden control and I look after them as well. I give them open service without any obligation without any money, I said any time if you need anything please give a ring, if there is any bad weather please give me ring, I pass you milk bread whatever you want it from my shop. So I am open minded wherever you need a help go for it. Okay, do you still have family back in India? My uncle's son. So do you go back too much? The thing is depend on circumstances, children born here, grand children born here and depend on circumstance, you know time and nothing no, like if my mother there say more attract to go regular, you see. And just a one final question then, do you notice what are the changes that you have noticed then with India going back since you left and then going back to visit over the years? I haven't been there sometime you get a lot of comments, different comments and every person have a different opinion, different comments. The thing is we human, we lost the track either India, here or America or Arab countries. We have lost the track. What should we, we are not to missing those knowledge, missing that educations from the younger age. If your mom and dad when you born if they strict about, if they not smoking then you don't smoke, if they swear then you swear. You just follow them. You just follow. And people like a bad habit and they persuade the children say you don't do this or don't do that. They not happen, they have to apply in your own I.D. first or own personal thing first before you can persuade somebody. Okay, and finally then do you have any final thought or message to give it to people who would be listening in the future? Listening to the future. Listening in the future, people who would be listening to your interview in the future regarding final thought or message for them? Looking for world peace, live together shoulder to shoulder, don't count as a you are white, black, brown or yellow live as a mankind and love each other and aim to reach somewhere and live your life peacefully. Okay. Thank you very much.