Reincarnation, Karma, Hinduism 14th March, 2004 sound Sound Cassette English Oral Interview Interview Abhijeet Joshi 213 Ashok Chavda Male Mombassa

Graduate EN Hindi, English I just want to start off the interview, I wanted to in stages of your family history and your history and religious practices things, things like that we just keep that simple. I want to start off with your family's history just to get an understanding where you are coming from. And I would like to ask you where your parents were born. Where your mother and father, where they were from? My father was born in Pemba. Where is that? Near Tanzania. And my mother was born in Zanzibar, which is also a part of Tanzania. Zanzibar, that's the island That's the island, yeah. Okay and what was your father's profession then? My father was working as a clerk and he has also served in the Army and worked in Somalia Mogadishu and my mother is living in Zanzibar. Okay and how did they get together this is quite you know there is lot of water in between, how did the families? I think that was exciting bit but it's like you know in olden days they used to be married by arrangement, so that's how marriage took place. So some family knew each other and that was like connection. Yes. Okay, so did your mother come to live with your father then? Yes. Okay. That's what happens after the marriage. So she came across in, left her family. Where were you born then? I was born in Mombassa when they finally moved from Zanzibar into Kenya for employment. So that's how I was born in Mombassa. And does your father change his employment when he moved there or did he carry on. I think he changed his employment, yes. You were talking about my father's occupation. Yeah, yeah did he change then when he moved to Mombasa? Yes he changed his occupation and he has been working at various places and then finally, his final job was working as a clerk in one of the forwarding companies like you know when they buy goods something like that on railways he used to do overload the transportation of goods by railways. So he was the incharge of seeing that. Yeah. Okay. So what, did you, did you have brothers and sisters or? Yes, we were seven in our family and I was the third one in the line from the top. Okay, were they brothers or sisters? Yes, but three brothers including myself, and four sisters. So what was, what was life like for you then growing up in Mombasa? Well I couldn't remember my childhood but I quite enjoyed childhood. Can you tell me any memories, specific memories of like you know where you lived or? Yes we lived in a very small part of Mombasa when I was born and I remember you know playing in waters and stream waters, making boats and you know doing all the running about, hiding and that's sort of game we used to play and from there we moved into because you know we were like you know house, four families were living in the same, so as the family grew bigger we had, we moved into another house, it was also a part of the old town, we were living in the old town. So was that last built up then? Well the building wise I think there were houses all around because of these Arabs who used to come down and do trading. Settlements were roundly at the all part of the town and from there it sort of started going inward. The old town was the main town. Alright okay. And did you go to school, there? Yes. Yeah, what was the school like? Yes. I think I started school when I was seven as for the normal age was at that time. Yeah. Started school at seven. And, and how far did you go there? It was quite a long way. I had to walk for more than an hour. You need to walk an hour to. To the school. And then back again. Yeah. Everyday. Yeah. Four times. For lunch you came home like that. Yeah. Oh my Gosh! That's a long lunch break. Two hours. We finished at 12'o clock and then we come, go to school at 2 O'clock again. So it takes quite a while. To go back and forth like that. Yes go back and forth. Okay and was it an English speaking school or what this, what they speak in, so you know was the main language. English. English yeah. How far did you go, was that you were in primary school and then in secondary school. I finished my primary school. Yeah. Did you go to secondary school? I did my secondary school, yeah. And then did you work after that or were you in college or what did you do? I did one year in college and then I had to come in here because I didn't have any employment at that time. And what was it like, as you got older then socially. What was there to do in Mombasa for a, you know a teenage boy. What did you get up to? Going to the, you know going out for you know different places, you know we used to go on a ferry and then go for a picnic and going out to watch cinemas and sort of thing. Were they Hindi, Hindi cinemas? Yeah, Hindi cinemas. Yeah. We used to like watch Hindi films. Okay. Did you have a favorite actor at that time? Yes. I can't remember. Dharmender used to be at that time. What happen then to change, why did the family then have to, to move to the U.K. then. What happened? I think at that time you know there was something political happening and there was not enough work at that moment because they were trying everything to nationalize and getting, giving jobs to people who are native to that country. Okay. So because you know, I had, didn't have the passport then but everybody because they were born in British period, so we had a chance, opportunity to have British passport. I didn't know that we had to come here to a settle and live here but my elder brother, who came here to study, obtained his degree in computing. So he was here before me, so I followed him afterwards. Okay so he, he was already here, then you came and then rest of the family come after you or? Yeah, in drips and drop wise. Okay, just as and when possible. Yeah. What was it, what were your memories then of, what were your expectations of the U.K. and how did the U.K. measure up when you first landed here? I didn't like because it was too lonely and you know not many people around and weather was also cold as well. You used to be like you know packed up in house you can't go anywhere. And, where, was this in London? Yes. Okay, so you arrived in Heathrow and just stayed in London. Yeah. But I moved couple of places before I really lived in London. I went to Manchester, Birmingham, Wigston and Liverpool. Okay, how come? Because my brother was in Liverpool. So I was, I went with him to Liverpool looking for a job, from there went to Manchester, Wigston, Bolton places like that. I didn't find any employment, so I came back to London. What kind of employment were you looking for then, what were you? I was looking in, in the Engineering Trade and I was bit surprised to find out that I applied to railways and they told me that I was too old because I was about the age of 20 then and to have an apprentice you have to be under 16 to 18 and then I finally moved into London and found the employment. As an Engineer or? No all, I always started at bottom you know. Okay then you have to work up. Where did you work? About, at the Philips Electrical and Television Company. Okay. And then what happened then when you know when you were living in London? I understand that you got married. Yeah, but I mean got used to the place where you are living isn't it. So you decided to, to settle then? Yeah. And what was the, what was the community like in London at that point, the Hindu community. They were few. I mean scattered here and there. Quite a few living in that area that we were living and I mean the closest family that I knew were from that side. So I used sort of go and visit the. That's right. And few others you know relations from Mombasa over there at that time. We were all coming you know like we came in here, some other families came in because they got the visas to come and settle. So there were one or two other families. We made friends through you know working and. Were there temples in London then. Yeah, there was one temple you know I mean it was far away. Okay. Did you ever went? Yeah. We used to go down to temple in Wood Green. We were living in Norbury but we used to go all the way to Wood Green. Where is, where is Norbury? Norbury is south part of; you know where Croydon is? Yeah, right so it is near that. And then what made you decide then to leave London? I think it's because of my brother had a job, and he wanted to buy the house so that's the reason I came in. You stayed here ever since. Sorry. You stayed here every since. Yes. Can you tell me you know the details that how you yourself changed then over the years you know with jobs and things like that while you being enough for a work what has changed for you. Just all I have, I had worked for one of the companies brush I started with and I got a job with another engineering from my sort of interest was mainly in engineering firm as to electrical work, that's what I like doing and that's where I was interested in and then I placed few companies and then I was made redundant and things like that and I worked for another local food machine company for couple of years and then I did some training on like I was interested in electrical-electronics so I did training and then got my qualification while I was working as well. So that's how I wanted to sort of progress in the engineering and ever since then I was sort of interested in like doing something, while I was not working I also you know did some subject that came up 14 years and got my degree. Okay. In between doing some vocational courses and computing and little bit you know here and there to keep myself busy in that sense. Okay. After I got my degree then I, I did some work and then wasn't employed for sometime and then we used to travel in between as well visiting India and then came back and then finally I just I did some qualification, teaching qualification and got into teaching job. Okay, what are you teaching? Well, I started teaching engineering subjects at Leicester College but now working for another department with the special needs. Okay. And I also teach Electronics to them as well. So electronics engineering is kind of featured? Yeah. And I also teach outreach centers, people to outreach places. Then I teach IT and Computing and all. How did you get more involved in the kind of community side of? Well, you know whilst I was not working and I was more active in Leicester going around and doing voluntary work and helping centers and that's how I was involved in community type of work. Okay and that's just carried on then ever since? Yeah. What do you get then from doing kind of community work? As opposed to just doing regular job you know, what do you get from that? You get lot of satisfaction. You meet people and then you create links and. Okay. I've got a brief outline of your family's history and your history. But I'd like to ask you a little bit about your religious side or your spiritual side. Did your family have any traditions that are kind of kept over the years with, either going to the temple regularly or your specific Murti that they will always worship or you know things that come down from the family or? You are talking about back home or in here? Back home that had been carried on here or that have changed you know just things that have been there that you know of. Yeah. I think back home was a bit more religious beliefs was strong. And then my family, like my mother and father they did come here and it was my sisters and brothers who started coming hear but then my sister got married you know and that sort of thing. I was asking you just about you know family traditions and how they have changed religious traditions. And you were telling me about what they are like. Yeah I think since I've been here and well interested in religious, we going to temples and things like that but not as regular as I was when I was a boy and my mom used to take me or my grand mom used to take me. Did your family have like an Altar at homes stuff as well? Yes. And did they have like a key person on the Altar or did they have everybody, you know like some person you know like? I think there was a temple with all the Gods in it. And what about then for yourself personally then like the external way we religious practices of maybe not as much as when you were a boy and your mother used to take you but what about internally? Just your thoughts on spiritual life or how they changed over the years your attitude towards religion. No I think I still strongly believe in that sort of aspects of religion. Yeah. Okay. And do you believe in like things like reincarnation, Karma or you know those aspects of Hinduism? Yeah. Yeah. And how do they affect your daily life then? How do you bring these kind of things into your daily life or? It just happens. It Just happens. Yeah not many times. It happens when it happens. Okay. What are the actual beliefs or values that you yourself know about Hinduism that you take up and then you follow? You know because there are so many different parts to Hinduism and everybody takes you know different aspects themselves that they feel help them. Is there any particular bits that you draw from? Certain part I am feeling that some of these things are carried on because you, they've been, I mean doctored into you like you carry on and some of these things have got no reasoning behind or, because what people have been doing they just carry on. But some of the others and as you grow up you understand that okay they used to do this because of, this is the significance behind it. There is not much, there is no much explanation behind you know some of these things that we still carry on doing it like customs you know. Okay. I wanted to just move on and ask you some general questions. Just to get your opinion on things. I ask everyone these same questions. What about the youth of today? Youth? The youth, do you feel that they are more or less religious than when you were growing? What in this country? In this country. Yeah. I think they are less. You think they are less? Yeah. Why do you feel that? Because they haven't been explained very well about our culture. Because we didn't know much about it. Yeah. At that time and why you do that, they ask questions and you haven't got the answers for it. Plus they also, in that sort of environment, they can understand for themselves that what's right and what's not wrong, what to take on and what not to take. Depending on the social circle they are in as well, influences them as well. Because they also studied in this country, they have left, they were born in this country so the environment also plays a part. So do you think if they were to grow up, the same generation if they were to say grow up in Africa that they would be different? Yeah. Do you think so? Yeah? Okay. Do you think it's important, I didn't ask you this question do you think it's important for the youth to learn their mother tongue? Yes it is. I mean here the things are little bit different because you know in this country the law protects the youngsters. They know what their rights are. But back home, it will be different thing. My father could sort of slap me but you know if I do, they might object and they might say okay. And taking objection I might call police or things like that. They know all the rights you see. In a way that it's good but it's also bad as well. When it's very difficult to bring the way we wanted them to be brought up, the way we were brought when we were back home. So the laws are there to protect but it doesn't really work out in the Asian community for the Asian people. So do you think that should be changed or how do you think that could be? How do you think that could work in long term then? Well they are not going to change the laws just because of the minority or whatever we want to call it these days but. How come some compromise then do you feel, be reached? I mean the main thing moulds down to the individual isn't it. Like you know I was like that when I was a kid and I my, I knew that my father and mother brought me up so it became my obligation to you know help my parents. But here I, if I wanted a shirt I can't ask my son okay, "buy me a shirt", you know things like, "buy me a Coat". Just leave it on his own accord. You know things like that. I mean, I don't know whether he would get an idea whether I should buy him a shirt or not, because my birth date would be now next month in June. Saying things like that you know. Yeah. Okay. What do you, do you think things have changed over the years in the U.K. for the Hindu community? Do you think it's easier now for the community? I mean there is, obviously still things that you feel then are difficult. I mean easier for the generation there or generation like us? No just for yourself personally. Do you feel that it's, for your generation do you think things have become easier? I wouldn't say. No. I wouldn't agree to that you know. Okay. Why? How do you feel like this? It's just mainly because of this you know laws and things like that. And they also influenced by the society as well, that they are mixing. Okay. Just so a couple of final questions and you know like you get back to work. How do you identify yourself because you know you've got Indian roots but you are born in Africa and you lived in the U.K. for a long time and your family are here, Hindu background, you know. If I was to say who are you now? What would you say? I know, I am proud to be British citizen but then I also have my own identity. Okay. And where do you see as home now? Sorry? Where do you see as home? My home? Yeah. Well I think Britain is my home because I am living in there. Okay. Finally then do you have any final thought or final you know some message to give it to people who would be listening to this in the future? Just to round off the interview. Okay. Just be realistic and you know. Okay. Thank you. If you would just like to, okay if you would like to add the words to that. Just talking about be realistic and have some respect for the elders. That's all. Okay. Thank you.